leo only handguns

[MrClamperSir]

No ot wasnt business as usual. As stated, it was the autbor of the flawed bill to begin with that thought he was doing cops a favor by exempting them.

Ill conclude but stating what ive said before in the past; if one feels like cops get a better "break" regarding gun laws, that pwrson could always test and try to become a cop himself.

That isn't the point. The point isn't cops this and citizens that. The point is politics. You state "he was doing cops a favor by exempting them". How is that not business as usual? When was the last time you were exempted as a favor by our legislators? I'm not saying it's the officers that are the bad guys here, I'm saying the unions and politicians are, they are divisive.

It ticks me off when i see the uninformed and ignorant making assumptions of leo's that simply are not true.

It ticks me off when I see an accusation made in such a far reaching way. Uniformed? Ignorant? I am going off of my recollection of events from when this transpired and if the unions weren't involved, ok, no problem. But it's not too far off of how our system works in general.

[Notorious]

Don't think of it as that great of a break... I don't really care if I have an exempt gun or not. I buy what is the best tool for me and the fact that the LCP is not on the list doesn't make it more desirable than other pocket guns that are on the list. I buy what works. Also, the damn temptation of having more selection of guns just makes me spend more money.

You know what I carry everyday when not in uniform? The lowly Taurus 709 Slim. Yep, the little single stack pocket 9mm. Oh boy, I am living it up on the special exemption now, aren't I, boy!

No special whoop-de-doo HK SoCom 45 with the 6" threaded barrel and laser designator and 30 round 9mm mag for me when going off duty even if I could. Man, I am just letting the best pass me by!

[locosway]

once a person is issued a ccw, should'nt the ccw holder be afforded the same privilage of purchasing handguns that are leo only ?? i would think that if a person is deemed the right to carry a lethal handgun concealed, that would far outweigh ant reason to not let him carry one. (example: why should i not be allowed to purchase a ruger lcp and carry it concealed ?)

LEO's are exempt from a lot of laws because without this exemption their jobs would be painful to perform or their unions would complain. It's a great example of a two classed system. You have those who follow the law, and then those who create and enforce the laws.

Personally, I feel there should be absolutely no exemptions for anyone. If it's illegal to carry a loaded gun, then the cops can't carry either. Make them UOC, or go through the same permit standards the normal citizen has to go through to get a CCW. Imagine LAPD being without firearms, since they only have 30 permits issues city wide.

[locosway]

Unions didn't have anything to do with the law. The uninformed and 'bending to special interest' law makers made that law. The law was flawed from the start and every attempt people made to correct it fell on deaf ears.

To the OP, the law was not written with the thought of containing exemptions for all the good citizens in our state. Flawed logic...as is the case with most of the shenanigans that happen in Sacramento.

Do you ever watch these police organizations support these bills? Do you think they would support a ban on loaded firearms if it meant the officers couldn't carry a firearm either?

[TrailerparkTrash]

It ticks me off when I see an accusation made in such a far reaching way. Uniformed? Ignorant? I am going off of my recollection of events from when this transpired and if the unions weren't involved, ok, no problem. But it's not too far off of how our system works in general.

Generally when it comes to LE associations, they don't get involved with "gun" related issues. I agree, the LE associations (unions) suck. They all do. They really only push for wages and benefits. As an added protections, they provide lawyer "insurance" for their officers. Guns, well they just don't play with that issue. I know, I'm a member of one of the most powerfuel LE unions in the nation. That's how I'm basing my opinion.

[1911su16b870]

IMO the safe handgun roster = ban-gun roster. The state should not be involved at all in this firearm approval capacity...the product liability lawyers will sort out any issue with a truely un-safe firearm.

LEAs need the ability to upgrade their issued duty pistols to new models and that is why the exemption is there. i.e. move from 3rd gen to 4th gen Glocks.

[Cokebottle]

Of course it was.

The original purpose of the roster was to eliminate the cheap "Saturday night specials"
The DOJ was a bit tweaked when most of these cheap imports actually passed the drop test, so they began adding additional requirements such as the LCI and mag disconnect.

As the roster test is currently set up, no 1911 or 2011 model gun can ever be added.

[locosway]

IMO the safe handgun roster = ban-gun roster. The state should not be involved at all in this firearm approval capacity...the product liability lawyers will sort out any issue with a truely un-safe firearm.

LEAs need the ability to upgrade their issued duty pistols to new models and that is why the exemption is there. i.e. move from 3rd gen to 4th gen Glocks.

LE needs to upgrade to the Gen4 just as much as I need to upgrade to the Gen4. There's no need here, it's just a want. The exemption has nothing to do with upgrades, it has to do with officers and their unions supporting the roster in the first place. None of these bills would be passed if they did not exempt LE. Just like the recent Cell Phone Ban while driving, LE and EMS are exempt from the law, even though they don't need to be.

Watch the video on AB144 and see who supports it. There's nearly a dozen police agencies and associations there providing their support for the ban of UOC. Some may argue that this is because they're actually in favor of allowing citizens to get CCW permits, but look at who is supporting it. None of these agencies currently allow or approve of citizens carrying firearms.

Lastly, I don't entirely blame the LEO's, but they aren't blameless either. I very rarely see any of them speak out against their exemptions, instead they argue that they need them to perform their jobs. I'd rather them support no exemptions and have everyone equal. But, the majority of the fault is on the legislation which feels they need to create a two classed citizenry. Exempting people from laws gives them a sense of entitlement and power. This sad fact is the people let this happen. So next time you wonder why we have this roster look around, and you can blame your neighbors, employer, co-workers, and many others who are more interested in American Idol then their rights.

[1911su16b870]

...None of these bills would be passed if they did not exempt LE. Just like the recent Cell Phone Ban while driving, LE and EMS are exempt from the law, even though they don't need to be...

I work in an area which the radios truly suck and often cell reception exists where the radios does not. I have many times needed the cell phone to clarify the broken radio traffic from dispatch. Hence the exemption of emergency personnel using the cell phone and driving. Yes loco...there is a need for some emergency personnel to use cell phones and drive...just say'in

When I am not on duty, I pull over and use the cell phone just like everyone else well maybe I do but many others don't

Lastly, I see your sig line has "100% pro 2A candidate"...if folks who are truly 100% pro 2A should not be bashing folks who could buy the firearms they would want to, but can't due to the current laws the state legislature has enacted. I don't go off on the good citizens of AZ or NV knowing they can own FA etc. This has been prevalent on CG for the last few years and should stop...just say'in

[Notorious]

LEO's are exempt from a lot of laws because without this exemption their jobs would be painful to perform or their unions would complain. It's a great example of a two classed system. You have those who follow the law, and then those who create and enforce the laws.

Personally, I feel there should be absolutely no exemptions for anyone. If it's illegal to carry a loaded gun, then the cops can't carry either. Make them UOC, or go through the same permit standards the normal citizen has to go through to get a CCW. Imagine LAPD being without firearms, since they only have 30 permits issues city wide.

You have really gone off the deep end on this one. Go through the same standards as a CCW? Last time I checked, in my county, you get a CCW with a 1 week background and a 5 hour carry laws class where you also get to shoot the guns to show proficiency (quals).

I recall going through a background process at least 2-3 months long in addition to all the other processing and then having to finish a 720 hour academy on top of it all to get that POST and have a badge so I can carry CCW off duty and LOC on duty.

Compared to the citizens who UOC while off duty, we are carrying LOC while ON-DUTY. It's for work. Get it? We are working. It's a tool of the trade. We are not LOC while on our own time for kicks while we go to Starbucks to get attention.

Taking your "if I can't then nobody can" argument to its logical conclusion, then we all should get tanks like the military, or else make soldiers drive Volvos since they are built like tanks, let me get prescription meds like doctors, I also want a secret service detail like the president, get paid to BBQ and work out like firemen, and get paid to read Playboy like their QC staff.

[locosway]

I work in an area which the radios truly suck and often cell reception exists where the radios does not. I have many times needed the cell phone to clarify the broken radio traffic from dispatch. Hence the exemption of emergency personnel using the cell phone and driving. Yes loco...there is a need for some emergency personnel to use cell phones and drive...just say'in

When I am not on duty, I pull over and use the cell phone just like everyone else well maybe I do but many others don't

Lastly, I see your sig line has "100% pro 2A candidate"...if folks who are truly 100% pro 2A should not be bashing folks who could buy the firearms they would want to, but can't due to the current laws the state legislature has enacted. I don't go off on the good citizens of AZ or NV knowing they can own FA etc. This has been prevalent on CG for the last few years and should stop...just say'in

My point was there is no more need for a LEA to use cell phones than say a delivery service. If there's an exemption in the law for emergency use, that's fine, but exempting a class of people is wrong.

As for the guns... I want the roster to go away, and I think it would be absurd to restrict LEO's to such a list, just as I think it's absurd that normal people are restricted to a list. However, if such a list must be in place, then it should apply to all people, and not just some of the people.

You have really gone off the deep end on this one. Go through the same standards as a CCW? Last time I checked, in my county, you get a CCW with a 1 week background and a 5 hour carry laws class where you also get to shoot the guns to show proficiency (quals).

I recall going through a background process at least 2-3 months long in addition to all the other processing and then having to finish a 720 hour academy on top of it all to get that POST and have a badge so I can carry CCW off duty and LOC on duty.

Compared to the citizens who UOC while off duty, we are carrying LOC while ON-DUTY. It's for work. Get it? We are working. It's a tool of the trade. We are not LOC while on our own time for kicks while we go to Starbucks to get attention.

Taking your "if I can't then nobody can" argument to its logical conclusion, then we all should get tanks like the military, or else make soldiers drive Volvos since they are built like tanks, let me get prescription meds like doctors, I also want a secret service detail like the president, get paid to BBQ and work out like firemen, and get paid to read Playboy like their QC staff.

And I have security clearance for my job and I've done the background checks and all that jazz. However in my county I can't get a CCW. So, why should officers in my county be allowed to automatically obtain a CCW based on their work? This creates a two classed system.

The point is the law should apply to all equally, and not have exemptions for certain people. Ideally everyone could get a CCW, but if you're going to restrict it to good cause, then make everyone have the same good cause requirements.

[Notorious]

And I have security clearance for my job and I've done the background checks and all that jazz. However in my county I can't get a CCW. So, why should officers in my county be allowed to automatically obtain a CCW based on their work? This creates a two classed system.

The point is the law should apply to all equally, and not have exemptions for certain people. Ideally everyone could get a CCW, but if you're going to restrict it to good cause, then make everyone have the same good cause requirements.

So... how much of the "TOP SECRET" files that you have access to can I expect to see in my mailbox by tomorrow morning since I have a LE clearance? Your TS clearance is for YOUR job. My background check and privileges is for MY job. Different requirements for different jobs and different privileges and responsibilities come with the jobs too.

I have more background checks than most people who are not in the military or federal LE but that doesn't automatically entitle me to anything more than they are entitled to when it's not a job related function.

I agree, I hate the roster and pretty much every gun law in this state. But all things considered, CA is a mix of good and bad in that we don't need to get a gun permit card or whatever else with the police department and get a clearance and then get permission, then buy it, then bring it to the police and all that jazz like Hawaii or some other places. It could be worse.

In any event, lots of military veterans have tons more training and clearances and can't carry a gun here. It's a different function, they are not working here. They are not entrusted with the work we do while they are on liberty or out of active service.

If you don't like it, instead of *****ing to us line officers who really have nothing to do with it, go voice it with the legislators, get involved with the NRA and CGF, and do something to fight it where it matters. I am on your side. I have no problems with civilian ccw and I think it's a great idea to give good people a chance to fight back against the criminals, but it's not up to me.

[Notorious]

why should officers in my county be allowed to automatically obtain a CCW based on their work? This creates a two classed system.

The point is the law should apply to all equally, and not have exemptions for certain people. Ideally everyone could get a CCW, but if you're going to restrict it to good cause, then make everyone have the same good cause requirements.

Oh, another thing... officers do not obtain a ccw based on their work. Officers are EXEMPT from 12025 and 12031 based on their 24 hour peace officer status. We don't have CCW's. We don't need them. If we applied for a CCW, we would be yelled at for wasting their time.

The law does apply equally to everyone it pertains to, but the law is specific on its application. Some laws apply to certain specified people and that's a function of how society works.

The law openly differentiates and treats many classes of people based on some type of status. Sex offenders, criminals, felons, foreigners, illegal aliens, greencard holders, male, female, Americans with Disabilities, public employees, residents of different locales, Veterans, you name it.

Do you want everyone to really be treated the same or just when you pick and choose?

[locosway]

If you don't like it, instead of *****ing to us line officers who really have nothing to do with it, go voice it with the legislators, get involved with the NRA and CGF, and do something to fight it where it matters. I am on your side. I have no problems with civilian ccw and I think it's a great idea to give good people a chance to fight back against the criminals, but it's not up to me.

I'm a NRA, CRPA, and SAF member, and I've donated to CGF. I also call and email my legislators about my concerns on gun control bills. So I feel I do my part here.

[Notorious]

I'm a NRA, CRPA, and SAF member, and I've donated to CGF. I also call and email my legislators about my concerns on gun control bills. So I feel I do my part here.

Yes, and I commend you for all that you have done. That's more than most people do, even for active members here.

However, besides alienate cops on this board, what are you trying to accomplish here? Nobody here disagrees with you really that the roster is a bad idea, but I don't think any cop here will give up buying an off-roster gun just to stand in solidarity with you. Besides, as everyone knows, the only difference is that you can't buy one retail from a dealer, but you can buy one PPT if you find one.