Completely unprofessional behavior at Turners in Orange

[CSACANNONEER]

"If a man walks into a gunshop wanting to buy a gun for his wife, pays for it and does the paperwork nothing is wrong. "

Not true, this is considered to be a straw purchase. Some stores might let it slide, but most wont.

Again, you are wrong. It is not illegal nor is it a straw purchase to buy a firearm as a gift for someone who is not a prohibited person. In fact, if you have ever filled out a 4473, you would know that. There is a box on the federal form that asks if the purchase is a gift for someone else. Checking the box off does not mean that the sale will not go through or that it is a straw purchase.

[S.A.]

I did a ppt at W/Covina Turner's few weeks ago, paid seller inside the store, employee said ok. Did same thing at Ammo bros Cerritos,no problem. Same thing earlier today at Oaktree,no problem.I don't feel it is being rude, it's harmless and legal.
Purchased a consignment gun earlier this year at Fountain Valley Turner's, a Browning Hipower, gun still had two original hicap mags with it! I'm not 100% sure that is illegal on their part but at the very least, unprofessional. Seems like Turner's salespeople just don't know how to handle the authority they carry.(haha).
And by the way I'll still continue to buy there.

[robcoe]

I did recently go to the Turners in Signal hill and they staff their was great.

Vote with your wallet.

I'll second that, and say that the SH Turners is the only one I will shop at. The people working there have always been great(And I have never had a problem paying the person I am buying the gun from in the store, same with Ammo Brothers in Cerritos).

The other one I have gone to, Fountan Valley, it took them nearly an hour(with no other customers in the store) to pull someone off their minesweeper session to check in the gun I was transfering(Something the SH Turners has yet to do, there the person at the counter just checks that it's unloaded and tells the hunting department that a gun is comeing back), then another 90 minutes to actualy do the transfer, again with no other customers in the store. I am not kidding about those times either, I arrived at 3PM to do the transfer and did not leave untill nearly 6. Never doing buisness at the FV store again.

[VictorFranko]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=438455

[desertmarlin]

There are so many of these threads and it amazes me that Calgunners still haven't learned anything. If your woman is buying the gun, have her do the ENTIRE transaction from beginning to end with zero participation from you. In fact, while she is buying the revolver, pull another Turner's employee at the end of the counter and start having him show you their shotguns one at a time. All of them. Then move on to the rifles. Waste their time until your woman finishes her transaction then both of you leave.

[Mr. Beretta]

It is always best to meet both parties outside the store, inspect the gun, hand over the payment, seller brings the gun inside the store with the buyer, then do the PPT.

Couldn't disagree with you more!

I've never nor will I ever, inspect any gun I'm buying in a parking lot outside of a gun store. Plus I've never had a FFL say a word about money being transferred in his store. And last but not least, the Turner's employer was out of line! If he was so sure a crime was being committed in his presence, he should have called the cops, not acted like a jerk!

The only possible fault I see reference the buyer is their failure to ask the employee if it was ok to openly pay for the gun in the store.

[hasserl]

There doesn't appear to be many decent gun shops available in socal. Are there any that the majority of calguns members endorse?

Try Straightline Tactical in Anaheim.

[rareair]

There doesn't appear to be many decent gun shops available in socal. Are there any that the majority of calguns members endorse?

From reading numerous threads on this site, RifleGear has a devout following.

[NorCal Einstein]

Couldn't disagree with you more!

I've never nor will I ever, inspect any gun I'm buying in a parking lot outside of a gun store. Plus I've never had a FFL say a word about money being transferred in his store. And last but not least, the Turner's employer was out of line! If he was so sure a crime was being committed in his presence, he should have called the cops, not acted like a jerk!

The only possible fault I see reference the buyer is their failure to ask the employee if it was ok to openly pay for the gun in the store.

I strongly agree with the bolded. I've never done a PPT, but I just can't think it's a smart idea to inspect a gun outside the store in a parking lot. Those around you have no idea what you're doing or what your intents are.

[Mad Jax]

Again, you are wrong. It is not illegal nor is it a straw purchase to buy a firearm as a gift for someone who is not a prohibited person. In fact, if you have ever filled out a 4473, you would know that. There is a box on the federal form that asks if the purchase is a gift for someone else. Checking the box off does not mean that the sale will not go through or that it is a straw purchase.

^^^^this

[Mad Jax]

When situations such as this occur, I hope something good may come from this. Such as educating staff on how to properly conduct themselves, especially in public, and of course the proper way to exchange funds for firearms. Belittling someone is never the right choice, especially when you know they have a firearm. That alone was a stupid act on the employees part. Not saying blah blah blah shoot the guy. Just think before you do.

[Sniper3142]

I want to verify that this was the Turner's Outdoorsman at 1932 N. Tustin Street, in the city of Orange.

Someone needs to explain basic customer service to these tools.

[GettoPhilosopher]

IIRC if they suspect a straw purchase then they can deny you. Big deal move on.

Of course they can. I can also refuse to sell to you if we had a PPT set up and, upon arriving, I felt you were suspicious/shady/whatever.

You're still allowed to call me a j@ck***** if my version of "refuse to sell to you" involves screaming at you in front of a bunch of people. Anyone with an ounce of sense in their head can say "You know what, I'm sorry, but we can't serve you. I need you to leave, sir".

How is this difficult to understand?

You were in the wrong, and were perhaps doing a straw purchase. We always think it is not since we are husband and wife and everything is owned as a couple, but buying guns is not that way.
You created a potential Straw Purchase by paying for the gun.
You screwed up.
Sure, the turners guy could have reacted differently, but take some blame for screwing up. You did it wrong, and you are wrong. (according to the laws.)

That's funny, when I asked HoffmanG about this, he agreed that guns are community property in CA. Now, if he was prohibited and asked his wife to buy for him, yes, that'd be a screwup. But when I'm gone, my wife carries one of my guns, and that's perfectly legal. When I buy guns, the money (cash or card) comes out a joint account with both our paychecks in it. And I can do a paperless intrafamilial transfer of any gun between my wife and I at any time.

Furthermore, as long as you're the purchaser and you're the one taking possession of the gun, as well as taking the responsibility to transfer the firearm properly to someone else, even BATFE admits you're allowed to buy a firearm as a "bona fide gift" for another party. I could walk into a gun store tomorrow, purchase a shotgun, do the DROS, take possession after 10 days, and then transfer it to my wife as a gift.

Mr. Lucas
Not always. A straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else — a.k.a. the “straw person” to make the purchase and complete the paperwork. Generally straw purchasers are utilized because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because they’re in one or more legally prohibited categories, such as being addicted to a controlled substance, being a felon, being underage, and so on.
However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case.
Felons, who are also prohibited from conducting a firearms transaction, will sometimes attempt to obtain guns this way, because they wouldn’t pass the NICS background check and could not truthfully fill out Form 4473. If, however, Bobby was with his father or other legal guardian, and his father was legally eligible to obtain the handgun as a gift for Bobby, his father would fill out Form 4473, undergo the NICS check, and assume legal responsibility for the transaction and the gun. Bobby’s father could truthfully complete the Form 4473 to indicate that he is the actual purchaser because he would take title to the weapon and then transfer the firearm to Bobby as a gift.
Carla
What if a customer who qualifies to own a gun buys a firearm as a gift for someone else?
Mr. Lucas
The same rules apply. A transaction is legal as long as the person who fills out form 4473 does so truthfully and completes it as the actual purchaser. In that particular situation, we usually like to make sure they are aware of the rules associated with ATF I 5300.2. Again, you should feel comfortable denying the purchase if you think the customer is being dishonest in any way.

Yeah, they're kind of confusing about the distinction, and yeah, it's probably better to just be more careful and avoid even the appearance of a straw purchase, just like I don't say the words "terrorist" or "bomb" in an airport. But the crime--according to BATFE--seems to be located in the act of lying on the Form 4473, which is about *purchasing*. If I gave you $600 and said "Dude, go buy me a handgun" it'd be a straw purchase. If my wife buys a shotgun for me for my birthday and pays for it with our community funds, it's community property. She is the one purchasing it, and is thus truthfully filling out Form 4473. She can then--if I am not prohibited--do a paperless intrafamilial transfer and give it to me later.

If one of the lawyers on here would like to disagree with me, I'd love to see some citations. *shrugs*

[repubconserv]

funny how america prides themselves in customer service and workmanship when things like this happen

and then people are suppose to be OK about it and move on?

no wonder a lot of jobs are going out of the country

Seriously

[Markus]

TBH pay for the gun either out in the parking lot when you inspect it or have the money yourself you should never have to have someone else hand over the money like that in a store. I am in no way endorsing that raving lunatic at Turners either just saying that with a little more foresight this could have been just another ppt experience.