Restocking fee for failed DROS?

[jeep7081]

First off, your signature line tells me a little about your level of maturity. ~25 years old?

I edited my post, please go back and read the additions.

We are an interstate commerce business only. We purchase estate collections and collectibles in CA. No storefront in CA., and not open to the public. We deal only with LE departments and FFL's.

When the NICS check comes to CA, when the handgun roster get's tossed, and when a fair playing field is established in regards to out-of-state sellers undercutting the overhead issues with doing business in this state - we'll go back to public retail sales in CA.

Wrong. 41yr. and still young. Go off the user name "70". You might look smarter. Now you know I have kids almost that age you thought I was. Feel better about talking to another older adult? Not sure how that plays into this, but just an attack on another CalGunner from a business person trying to get business. Interesting.

Before you make personal attacks on the youth around here and look bad on your business. Think before you speak my friend. 25yr olds buy guns too. They are mature as well.

Your statement above proves my point. You have no overhead as does a store front. Little different. This also makes sense on how you have time on your hands.

[Serpentine]

Wrong. 41yr. and still young. Go off the user name. You might look smarter. Now you know I have kids almost that age you thought I was. Feel better about talking to another adult? Not sure how that plays into this, but just an attack on another CalGunner from a business person trying to get business. Interesting.

Before you make this personal attacks and look bad on your business as well. Think before you speak my friend.

Your statement above proves my point. You have no overhead as does a store front. Little different. This also makes sense on how you have time on your hands.

We have plenty of overhead invested to do volume on a fair playing field. I'm in the business to reduce costs and increase profits like any other business.

It's just not a good business model to have a storefront CA retail gun shop in CA anymore.

I have time because I don't have to educate and spend time with numerous off-the-street (many times dubious and suspicious) customers in my shop that ask all kinds of legality questions, firearms specifics questions, and down-right weird questions. Then, they get on-line and buy the lowest cost offerings in the country.

There's not a single gun shop in CA that has not been trashed here on calguns, mainly because the buying market does not understand the CA laws, overhead expenses, unfair playing field, licensing hoops and expenses, risks, etc.

There are two sides to every argument.

TRUTH!

.

[jeep7081]

Wrong. 41yr. and still young. Go off the user name "70". You might look smarter. Now you know I have kids almost that age you thought I was. Feel better about talking to another older adult? Not sure how that plays into this, but just an attack on another CalGunner from a business person trying to get business. Interesting.

Before you make personal attacks on the youth around here and look bad on your business. Think before you speak my friend. 25yr olds buy guns too. They are mature as well.

Your statement above proves my point. You have no overhead as does a store front. Little different. This also makes sense on how you have time on your hands.

We have plenty of overhead invested to do volume on a fair playing field. I'm in the business to reduce costs and increase profits like any other business.

It's just not a good business model to have a storefront CA retail gun shop in CA anymore.

I have time because I don't have to educate and spend time with numerous off-the-street (many times dubious and suspicious) customers in my shop that ask all kinds of legality questions, firearms specifics questions, and down-right weird questions. Then, they get on-line and buy the lowest cost offerings in the country.

TRUTH!

.

Personally, I give the shop owner I spent the hour with the option to purchase at the best price I found. 100% of the time, they have lowered their price. I have only once paid retail price on a gun at a gun store. That was in '94 at Turners. It was on sale though. If your keeping track, and by your comment I was "immature" at 24yrs old. Since then, I usually haggle the price down 10% is my rule of thumb I like. So, you have to respect that I try to keep my business at the same place who spent all the time selling me the firearm?

You edited your posts
There's not a single gun shop in CA that has not been trashed here on calguns, mainly because the buying market does not understand the CA laws, overhead expenses, unfair playing field, licensing hoops and expenses, risks, etc.

I'll reply. I didn't trash any of the stores I named. I didn't. Actually I said they are great guys. The original post was only to state what I saw for the first time. I'll pass on the reply on the "home based business" and no overhead. All my points were made above.

Thanks Barry, its been fun. I wanted to add thanks for all the mature 25yr men & women who serve our country. Your doing a great job. My son-inlaw included "Air Force".

[Serpentine]

Personally, I give the shop owner I spent the hour with the option to purchase at the best price I found. 100% of the time, they have lowered their price. I have only once paid retail price on a gun at a gun store. That was in '94 at Turners. It was on sale though. If your keeping track, and by your comment I was "immature" at 24yrs old. Since then, I usually haggle the price down 10% is my rule of thumb I like. So, you have to respect that I try to keep my business at the same place who spent all the time selling me the firearm?

You edited your posts
There's not a single gun shop in CA that has not been trashed here on calguns, mainly because the buying market does not understand the CA laws, overhead expenses, unfair playing field, licensing hoops and expenses, risks, etc.

I'll reply. I didn't trash any of the stores I named. I didn't. Actually I said they are great guys. The original post was only to state what I saw for the first time.

Jeep:

We are all in the same mess here in CA. The only way I could convince you of what is truth, is to politely ask you to get an FFL license and open a gun shop here in CA. If what you believe in and have passion for holds up over time, then you will do better than those that came before you.

Wish you well my brother in arms.

.

[tenpercentfirearms]

quoted in a quote so can't be quoted back.

A customer that comes in and window shows is not the subject here. I made no mention of window shopping customers either good nor bad. They are what they are. Any potential window shopper could be a return customer. So you treat everyone like they are going to come back to spend a million dollars.

However, if you get denied and are a prohibited person, you can pretty much not count on selling them guns nor ammo ever again. Why waste anymore time on them or give them specialized treatment? Answer is you don't. Take your $75 out of their deposit and done. I have thousands more law abiding citizens to serve and spend my time on.

Emphasis added so everyone can see Wes' reply

Wes,
I just lost all respect for you. I'm not leftist, I'm not leftist thinking. You are using labels when you don't have a freakin clue who I am or what I do.

I KNOW you own a freaking gun store. That's why I said you are looking at it from the industry viewpoint.

I didn't forget anything about the part I bolded above.

I believe in personal responsibility. I help train people in a couple of different arenas so they can be personally responsible and independent = on my own time.

Out of this thread, not worth it.

I believe it was you who said,

ETA - it seems like some people posting in this thread are personally offended by different views. This isn't personal.......

You seemed to take the leftist comment personal. If you aren't a leftist, then I guess I wasn't talking to you. Again, don't take it personal. I am not. Some people think business owners should work for free or that specifically gun dealers should cater to prohibited persons. If you think that is what they should do, that is some leftist thinking. Not a personal attack, just the facts. If that isn't your opinion, then you have nothing to worry about.

It is true, I don't know who you are or what you do. I do know what you have said in this thread. You claimed I wouldn't know what newbies think. I know what they think because they e-mail me general legal questions, they come into my store and ask legal questions, and I spend a lot of my time explaining the answers to these questions in person, by e-mail, and over the phone.

You claimed that newbies would have no idea what disqualifies them from buying a gun as they are ignorant. As has been stated, you have the 4473 that everyone has to read before a dealer starts DROS. The dealer reviews the 4473 before starting DROS. All of the disqualifying factors are there. 99% of all customers know exactly whether they are prohibited or not. The few I have had that didn't think they were disqualified thought their prohibition time was over or knew exactly what disqualified them. I have had one customer come in and actually have a mistaken identity so he was truly surprised.

So again, why should dealers cater to people who have their DROS canceled through ineligibility or who change their mind after most of the work is done?

Again, we can keep bickering back and forth over this really non-issue since 99% of you will never have this issue or we can all learn from it. Dealers, don't call it a re-stocking fee unless they take possession of the firearm or accessories. Call it is a cancellation fee. Then no one can get their panties in a wad. Makes sure you notify the customer of these policies before they leave the building, preferably before money exchanges hands or DROS is started.

Consumers, understand that a dealer has certain costs they want to be paid for. It is true showing people merchandise and answering questions is not that costly. However, starting a DROS and then canceling it or having it come back denied requires work, effort, and maintenance. Talk to your dealer about what happens if you change your mind or if you might be denied. Know their policies. If you think you might change your mind, see if you can strike a deal.

As I have stated I am more than willing to work with customers who I know are going to return or at least have a chance of returning. If you changed your mind on a handgun half way through, I wouldn't mind canceling your DROS, charging your for the $25, and then moving all of your other money towards a different handgun. Does that mean I am working for free? No. It means I just have to spend a little more time on you, but I am still getting paid. That is customer service. Some customers are easy and some are harder.

Customers who get denied are not easy customers and they 9 times out of 10 are not going to be return customers. It makes zero sense to cater to them at all. Further, they eat up a dealer's time that could be otherwise spent helping all of you Calgunners out that are actually not prohibited, law abiding customers.

It is what it is.

[jeep7081]

A customer that comes in and window shows is not the subject here. I made no mention of window shopping customers either good nor bad. They are what they are. Any potential window shopper could be a return customer. So you treat everyone like they are going to come back to spend a million dollars.

However, if you get denied and are a prohibited person, you can pretty much not count on selling them guns nor ammo ever again. Why waste anymore time on them or give them specialized treatment? Answer is you don't. Take your $75 out of their deposit and done. I have thousands more law abiding citizens to serve and spend my time on.

Post #67 on how you worded it I think is what Mike was talking about. Its fine to think it, but to say it and releave all doubt is where you loose customers. Meaning, I am onboard with some of what you say, but as an owner you probably shouldn't say it. It shows your character.

[jeep7081]

For me personally, its been fun. I didn't think it would go the way it did, but it did. The thread shows many different views, and some people true character was brought out. All in all, buyer beware. Not all gun shops are the same, have the same prices, nor have the same contracts.

I'm out. I have nothing more to add.......

Be safe out there...

[tenpercentfirearms]

Post #67 on how you worded it I think is what Mike was talking about. Its fine to think it, but to say it and releave all doubt is where you loose customers. Meaning, I am onboard with some of what you say, but as an owner you probably shouldn't say it. It shows your character.

I am a calguns member. I say what I think. I say what is on my mind. If that offends some people, I can't help that.

I have refused and will continue to refuse to let my also being a gun dealer temper what needs to be said. 99% of my customers are not offended by what I say. It is usually people that will never be my customer that get offended and claim it hurts my business.

No biggie.

As far as character. Can you be more specific? Was I wrong and is it not leftist thinking to claim that dealers should work for free or cater to prohibited persons? This thread is full of posters, just because eaglemike was quoted doesn't mean he is necessarily a leftist when I make the comment 5 paragraphs down.

I don't mind speaking the truth if it makes you better consumers. I usually am criticized for it, but if you listen to what I am telling you, you will have better releations with your dealer. Just as I have to learn to grease my customer's skids, you too can learn how to grease your dealer's skids. I just don't consider most of you my customers as most of you don't shop with me. Come into my gun shop and it is a totally different ball game. The Internet is a whole different world.

[taperxz]

I too own my own company, but not a firearms dealer. People in business are trying to make a living to support themselves and their families. Regardless of what you are selling, a business person has to make decisions based on whats best for their business, whether it be cutting your losses or taking a loss for the good of future sales. The only time you can do the latter is when you have a good working relationship with that entity. No one in their right mind is going to be willing to take a loss for a lost cause.

Jeep, why would you even come close to implying that a firearms dealer should take a loss on anything in regards to THEIR business?? Would you sell your family car that you had for sale to some person who replied to your ad, then you take them on a 45 minute test drive then they tell you "we are here to look at the car but you are asking 10 grand (as advertised) but we can only afford 5 grand"

I guarantee the first words out of your mouth would be " dang can't these people read? I listed it for 10 grand!! Why are they coming out here to waste my time and waste a 1/4 tank of my gas DANG IT!!"

Put yourself in the shoes of those having to make the investment.

[Cokebottle]

Maybe run the DROS first then before you pull it from the shelf?

Not legal.
DROS is Dealer Record Of Sale.
It cannot be processed until the sale is made.
The DROS registers the handgun to the buyer.
It can take the DOJ 10 days, or even longer, to notify the dealer that the buyer was rejected.

Sadly, while it only takes 15 minutes max to run the BG check in a free state, California is not set up for dealers to be able to do that.

What you are asking is for the dealer to effectively run their own background check prior to making the sale... only a cop can legally do that. Even if the buyer is rejected, the FFL is not told why. The FFL is told to have the buyer get in touch with them to find out why they were rejected, or to "straighten it out".
It could be something as serious as a "forgotten" felony, it could be mistaken identity (buyer gives name "John Smith" but not his SSN, and the DOJ finds a "John Smith" that used to live at his address who is prohibited, or it could be something as simple as February screwing them up and they attempted to DROS a 2nd handgun 28 days after the 1st.

Kind of like pulling credit before they wash your car at the dealer and say "its sold"?

Totally different.