Restocking fee for failed DROS?

[jeep7081]

What I am saying is that there are people in your CA government that decided you need a 10 day cooling off period on every firearm purchase. Those are the people you should be writing to if you want to reduce fees at your local gun shop.

Or, you can get your 01FFL and be the only one that works for free.

As the saying goes: "If you want to make a small fortune in the firearms business, you have to start with a large fortune."

Does anyone honestly believe that gun dealers are making a fortune selling ammo, CLP, gun cleaning supplies, etc?


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Ill shoot myself in the foot, but ill bite. To see AMMO Bros has two stores, Turners with more than a few. They have grown. They are making a few bucks. So, yes.

Have you ever walked in and paid full price for a gun? I never have. Although, I have heard them say they only make a few bucks, I just laugh as I got a deal and haggled.

Side note:
I read online (Yahoo) a gas station say they only make $.03 off every gallon. BS. I have a Vons card. I get $.03 off every gallon if I remember to type in my phone number. Then wife pointed out, if we spend $50 in the store, we get $.10 off every gallon! I am sure there not into loosing money. Their is a profit in there. I will burn my cash to have Vons checkbook.

Back to the topic at hand...

[taperxz]

That's a whole different topic. It's like if you get pulled over for suspended license. Should the city be able to take your car/truck and own it? Sure, they only take it for 30 days. 99% of the people can't afford impound fees after 30 days. Then add, if your registration is expired, you need that up to date. Need a smog for that year? Add that. Before you know it, your fees could be $1000-$1500! on a car worth $1500 with bad brakes, bold tires, etc. lol.

So, to take your property for driving w/out a license? I say no to that too. Most of the time, PD sends you walking home. I would rather see heavy fines, person taken into custody, etc. Rather than allow government to be able to take the property.

That's all I have to say about that..Again, before we get off track.



Just because I do 75mph on the way home tonight doesn't mean I am going to pull a DMV report every Fri night or check online to see if I have a speeding ticket coming in the mail neither.

Great debate, but well have to agree to disagree.

Again, you are talking about breaking the law, Jeez louise! "I should check my DMV report prior to breaking the law again" This is pretty lame, i have no further comment.

[eaglemike]

That kid needs to learn how to read or not lie on the 4473 where it asks, "Have you ever been dishonorably discharged from the armed services?" If he answers yes, then I wouldn't take his money and start his DROS.

That is the thing that cracks me up about this thread. You guys pretend like people just walk into gun stores on a regular basis with no clue they are going to get denied and that poor them they found out the hard way. I have had maybe a fraction of my denials be a situation like this.

emphasis added. No one here said ANYTHING about regular basis.

Again - you are so close to the industry you evidently don't realize the level of ignorance of the average person.

Do you spend some time with total newbs on a regular basis? I have many times, and I'm usually surprised at how little they know about gun laws in Ca, much less Fed. Try mentoring a few times at a Women on Target clinic, or any other activity away from your normal circle. Listen to the questions that get asked. It's quickly apparent that these people know nothing about gun laws.

ETA - it seems like some people posting in this thread are personally offended by different views. This isn't personal.......

[robcoe]

First let me say, I wasn't denied. Ok...now were passed that. I was in Ammo Bros. They charge $50 restock and $25 DROS fee if your denied. They make you sign a paper. I have never seen this before in all the firearms I have purchased in the many moon rotations.

Maybe another name instead of "restocking" since you never leave the store or legally purchase it until your cleared through DOJ.

Just thought I would post on what I saw incase someone goes down there and is also surprised like I was.

Ammo Brothers is pretty cheap then, Turners is 30% of the price of the gun if for some reason you cant get it/dont want it after starting DROS.

[jeep7081]

emphasis added. No one here said ANYTHING about regular basis. Your correct! Good catch.

Again - you are so close to the industry you evidently don't realize the level of ignorance of the average person. True

Do you spend some time with total newbs on a regular basis? I have many times, and I'm usually surprised at how little they know about gun laws in Ca, much less Fed. Try mentoring a few times at a Women on Target clinic, or any other activity away from your normal circle. Listen to the questions that get asked. It's quickly apparent that these people know nothing about gun laws.

ETA - it seems like some people posting in this thread are personally offended by different views. This isn't personal.......It's not. Just a topic

Replied in bold above. Good reply! When I was in there I heard many questions from "newbies" that might make the average gun holder say "and your getting a firearm and don't know that". But, their new and learning. Good post.

Again, you are talking about breaking the law, Jeez louise! "I should check my DMV report prior to breaking the law again" This is pretty lame, i have no further comment.

Glad I made my point. It's the same thing. Who checks DOJ or the court house. Both situations the law was possibly broken.

Ammo Brothers is pretty cheap then, Turners is 30% of the price of the gun if for some reason you cant get it/dont want it after starting DROS.

Your wording makes it sound like if they changed their mind. This includes denied by DOJ?

When I bought from Turners back in '94 +/- I don't remember them having that. Maybe they did or didn't I don't know. Long time ago.

[Fjold]

That's cheap. It is.

Here is a small copy & paste from post #40
As someone stated, what if you have no idea. Would you just blow $50 to do a check? Doubtful. My wife has got a RO against an ex. Kicked her condo door in. He doesn't know. PD was called, she got the RO. He was gone when they showed. Had no idea that PD was called nor he has a RO on him.

What about the kid that gets dishonorable discharge from the military. He/she can never get a gun. I never knew that until recent! My cousin was a kid, and wanted to get married and asked to be "let go" and they did. He can no longer have a firearm. Bummer for him. Again, I bet he doesn't know.

Your cousin is blowing smoke up your ***.

You don't get a dishonorable for asking to be let out, if you make a big harry deal out of it and they agree to let you out of your contract they will give you a "General Discharge".

If you you refuse to do your job and cause trouble then you get "Less than Honorable" discharge.

If you get a court martial for refusing to do your job and cause a lot of trouble and make a complete a** out of yourself then you get a "Bad Conduct" discharge.

"Dishonorable" discharges are only given for what the military considers the most reprehensible conduct and can only be rendered by a general court-martial for serious offenses like desertion, rape, murder, etc. that call for dishonorable discharge as part of the sentence.

[tenpercentfirearms]

emphasis added. No one here said ANYTHING about regular basis.

Again - you are so close to the industry you evidently don't realize the level of ignorance of the average person.

Do you spend some time with total newbs on a regular basis? I have many times, and I'm usually surprised at how little they know about gun laws in Ca, much less Fed. Try mentoring a few times at a Women on Target clinic, or any other activity away from your normal circle. Listen to the questions that get asked. It's quickly apparent that these people know nothing about gun laws.

ETA - it seems like some people posting in this thread are personally offended by different views. This isn't personal.......

LOL. This is rich. I own a retail gun store. I deal with people on a regular basis that do not know anything about CA gun laws. They come into my store and ask me questions about legality and "how to get a license to buy a gun". Saying that a retail gun store employee doesn't know about the ignorance of the average person is flat out wrong. I most certainly know.

The only people who are going to be isolated from gun newbies are going to be Calgunners that make newbies feel like crap for asking stupid questions. Everyone on Calguns knows everything as is evident by this thread.

You, like others, keep conveniently forgetting the fact that a person who goes to buy a gun must fill out the 4473 that has 10 disqualifying questions on it based on prohibiting reasons for owning a gun. All of these people read these questions and know the answers. If they know the answers and still go through with the transaction, they are wasting everyone's time. As a businessman, my time is just as important as yours as a customer. If I am performing a service for you like selling you a gun or filling out your paperwork, I expect to get paid.

It is no different than you going into a shop and expecting that service back. If I am not meeting your gun buying needs, you aren't going to waste your time.

Like I said, I keep it simple. If you get denied or cancel your DROS, I get a cancellation fee. It is a fee to cover the costs of doing your paperwork. There are plenty of reasons I will not charge you this if it relates to keeping you happy as a customer.

If you are denied because of your felony, you will no longer be my customer. I really don't care if you get pissed off and think the $50 is unfair or unjust. I am never going to see you again anyway.

If other dealers want to run people's eligibility checks at the $25 DROS cost by running them through to see if they are prohibited or not, that is their choice. I used to be nonchalant about it. Now I want to get paid because I am doing work and having to audit and maintain those records just like any other transaction which I usually get paid for.

The only reason this thread is a debate at all is there is an underlying theme from some members here that dealers should provide a costly background check service for people who get denied because they are prohibited persons. If a dealer is not willing to do this service for the greater good of the criminal community, then they are being selfish or "unfair" taking that money for doing "nothing".

Typical California leftist thinking.

If you want to know if you are eligible, here is the link for you again.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

[jeep7081]

Your cousin is blowing smoke up your ***.

You don't get a dishonorable for asking to be let out, if you make a big harry deal out of it and they agree to let you out of your contract they will give you a "General Discharge".

If you you refuse to do your job and cause trouble then you get "Less than Honorable" discharge.

If you get a court martial for refusing to do your job and cause a lot of trouble and make a complete a** out of yourself then you get a "Bad Conduct" discharge.

"Dishonorable" discharges are only given for what the military considers the most reprehensible conduct and can only be rendered by a general court-martial for serious offenses like desertion, rape, murder, etc. that call for dishonorable discharge as part of the sentence.

Youngsters!

How about maybe I didn't want to air out all what happen? No black helicopters here. Was just vague. His paper said "not suitable for military life" regarding his reason he gave them to get out (not disclosed on calguns).

[jeep7081]

LOL. This is rich. I own a retail gun store. I deal with people on a regular basis that do not know anything about CA gun laws. They come into my store and ask me questions about legality and "how to get a license to buy a gun". Saying that a retail gun store employee doesn't know about the ignorance of the average person is flat out wrong. I most certainly know. That's how it should be. I have actually seen different. I am glad your one of the good guys.

The only people who are going to be isolated from gun newbies are going to be Calgunners that make newbies feel like crap for asking stupid questions. Everyone on Calguns knows everything as is evident by this thread. Disagree. Some are quoting the laws incorrectly.

You, like others, keep conveniently forgetting the fact that a person who goes to buy a gun must fill out the 4473 that has 10 disqualifying questions on it based on prohibiting reasons for owning a gun. All of these people read these questions and know the answers. Not true as stated by my many replies. If they know the answers and still go through with the transaction, they are wasting everyone's time. Agree, if they know. As a businessman, my time is just as important as yours as a customer. If I am performing a service for you like selling you a gun or filling out your paperwork, I expect to get paid. What if you take an hour to show someone a firearm and they walk. Your time was also wasted? So, you think everytime you talk to someone, you must get paid? Interesting.

It is no different than you going into a shop and expecting that service back. If I am not meeting your gun buying needs, you aren't going to waste your time. Intersting.

Like I said, I keep it simple. If you get denied or cancel your DROS, I get a cancellation fee. It is a fee to cover the costs of doing your paperwork. There are plenty of reasons I will not charge you this if it relates to keeping you happy as a customer. While your back and fourth, I hope you feel this way.

If you are denied because of your felony, you will no longer be my customer. I really don't care if you get pissed off and think the $50 is unfair or unjust. I am never going to see you again anyway. Interesting.

If other dealers want to run people's eligibility checks at the $25 DROS cost by running them through to see if they are prohibited or not, that is their choice. One FFL dealer I went to did just that. I gave him no money, he called after 10 days to pay and p/u. I used to be nonchalant about it. Now I want to get paid because I am doing work and having to audit and maintain those records just like any other transaction which I usually get paid for.

The only reason this thread is a debate at all is there is an underlying theme from some members here that dealers should provide a costly background check service for people who get denied because they are prohibited persons. If a dealer is not willing to do this service for the greater good of the criminal community, then they are being selfish or "unfair" taking that money for doing "nothing". From me, not true. I originally said, it was just a "hummm, never saw that before". But, I will say for the 10% or whatever that don't know it might not be fair.

Typical California leftist thinking.

If you want to know if you are eligible, here is the link for you again.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

Wes,

Replied in bold above. Hope it clears the air.

I have had store fronts and was the owner in the past. I never thought as you stated if you spent hour and I walked and didn't buy I wasted your time. I always thought, I make "x" per month, and am happy with that amount regardless of hours spent with customer or time at the store. I guess that's why I was busy and didn't have free time to spend online.

[eaglemike]

LOL. This is rich. I own a retail gun store. I deal with people on a regular basis that do not know anything about CA gun laws. They come into my store and ask me questions about legality and "how to get a license to buy a gun". Saying that a retail gun store employee doesn't know about the ignorance of the average person is flat out wrong. I most certainly know.

The only people who are going to be isolated from gun newbies are going to be Calgunners that make newbies feel like crap for asking stupid questions. Everyone on Calguns knows everything as is evident by this thread.

You, like others, keep conveniently forgetting the fact that a person who goes to buy a gun must fill out the 4473 that has 10 disqualifying questions on it based on prohibiting reasons for owning a gun. All of these people read these questions and know the answers. If they know the answers and still go through with the transaction, they are wasting everyone's time. As a businessman, my time is just as important as yours as a customer. If I am performing a service for you like selling you a gun or filling out your paperwork, I expect to get paid.

It is no different than you going into a shop and expecting that service back. If I am not meeting your gun buying needs, you aren't going to waste your time.

Like I said, I keep it simple. If you get denied or cancel your DROS, I get a cancellation fee. It is a fee to cover the costs of doing your paperwork. There are plenty of reasons I will not charge you this if it relates to keeping you happy as a customer.

If you are denied because of your felony, you will no longer be my customer. I really don't care if you get pissed off and think the $50 is unfair or unjust. I am never going to see you again anyway.

If other dealers want to run people's eligibility checks at the $25 DROS cost by running them through to see if they are prohibited or not, that is their choice. I used to be nonchalant about it. Now I want to get paid because I am doing work and having to audit and maintain those records just like any other transaction which I usually get paid for.

The only reason this thread is a debate at all is there is an underlying theme from some members here that dealers should provide a costly background check service for people who get denied because they are prohibited persons. If a dealer is not willing to do this service for the greater good of the criminal community, then they are being selfish or "unfair" taking that money for doing "nothing".

Typical California leftist thinking.

If you want to know if you are eligible, here is the link for you again.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

Emphasis added so everyone can see Wes' reply

Wes,
I just lost all respect for you. I'm not leftist, I'm not leftist thinking. You are using labels when you don't have a freakin clue who I am or what I do.

I KNOW you own a freaking gun store. That's why I said you are looking at it from the industry viewpoint.

I didn't forget anything about the part I bolded above.

I believe in personal responsibility. I help train people in a couple of different arenas so they can be personally responsible and independent = on my own time.

Out of this thread, not worth it.

[Serpentine]

Agree, this thread is toast due to many misconceptions and misunderstandings. Mostly, because CA firearm purchasers have very little idea of what dealers have to go through to deliver to their customers, and still make a living at it.

.



.

[jeep7081]

Agree, this thread is toast due to many misconceptions and misunderstandings. Mostly, because CA firearm purchasers have very little idea of what dealers have to go through to deliver to their customers, and still make a living at it.

.



.

Looks like your an FFL dealer. To be fair. Since you posted. Maybe you can tell us to help us understand? Break it down. Cost of the gun, retail price, actual time spent typing it into the computer. If you pay an employee, his wage and time. Great idea.

I'd also be interested if there is more time spent on a customer looking for an hour then leaving w/out buying than the 1 hr spent on putting info into the computer and then their denied? What I am getting at isn't it the same thing? Maybe that's why some charge, and some don't bother.

Anyways, for all the newbies, and those who don't know. Read what you sign. If you don't like it, shop around. If it doesn't bother you, sign and be done. To some of us, this really doesn't apply anways as we always pass DROS anyway.

[Serpentine]

Looks like your an FFL dealer. To be fair. Since you posted. Maybe you can tell us to help us understand? Break it down. Cost of the gun, retail price, actual time spent typing it into the computer. If you pay an employee, his wage and time. Great idea.

I'd also be interested if there is more time spent on a customer looking for an hour then leaving w/out buying than the 1 hr spent on putting info into the computer? What I am getting at isn't it the same thing? Maybe that's why some charge, and some don't bother.

Anyways, for all the newbies, and those who don't know. Read what you sign.

Easy, simply go back through this thread and read what bweise, bdsmchs, tenpercentfirearms, and myself have said to try to educate you about what is fictional and what is reality. We're on your side or we wouldn't be in the business. Try to walk a mile in our shoes. We are not government employees, legislatures, or pseudo-feds - but merely licensees.

Many CA Firearms purchasers use CA gun shops to go touch and feel the inventory, only to purchase from out-of-state sellers and utilize transfer dealers. It's only natural to want to save money, but it is the driving force behind the cost of doing business in CA as a firearms dealer. There aren't many FFL's in CA, and there are not many new FFL applicants to start up in this state.

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[jeep7081]

Easy, simply go back through this thread and read what bweise, bdsmchs, tenpercentfirearms, and myself have said to try to educate you about what is fictional and what is reality. We're on your side or we wouldn't be in the business. Try to walk a mile in our shoes. We are not government employees, legislatures, or pseudo-feds - but merely licensees.

.

Barry,

I live my life of "show me". Show me your stats. List the model, your cost, your retail, and how much times is spent on each sale. Otherwise I'll assume you do just fine.

As stated, I have had many businesses including store fronts. Your preaching to the choir. But, I never said what has been said here.

I don't see an address for you. Looks like you do this from home? Does this even apply to you? I assume you just drop-ship to a FFL dealer and no DROS ever gets ran. Correct?

[Serpentine]

I live my life of "show me". Show me your stats. Otherwise I'll assume you do just fine.

As stated, I have had many businesses including store fronts. Your preaching to the choir. But, I never said what has been said here.

I don't see an address for you. Looks like you do this from home? Does this even apply to you? I assume you just drop-ship to a FFL dealer and no DROS ever gets ran. Correct?

First off, your signature line tells me a little about your level of maturity. ~25 years old?

I edited my post, please go back and read the additions.

We are an interstate commerce business only. We purchase estate collections and collectibles in CA. No storefront in CA., and not open to the public. We deal only with LE departments and FFL's.

When the NICS check comes to CA, when the handgun roster get's tossed, and when a fair playing field is established in regards to out-of-state sellers undercutting the overhead issues with doing business in this state - we'll go back to public retail sales in CA.