Turners 'effectively' formalizes gun lock requirements

[Librarian]

Federal law requires a some kind of trigger lock be sold with every handgun, even if you gave a safe.

Not quite.

Dealers should be forgiven if they do business as if that were the case, but that is not what 18 USC 922 (z) requires; the law requires secure gun storage or a safety device, and those are defined to include a gun safe in 18 USC 921 (a) (34)

(34) The term “secure gun storage or safety device” means—
(A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to prevent the firearm from being operated without first deactivating the device;
(B) a device incorporated into the design of the firearm that is designed to prevent the operation of the firearm by anyone not having access to the device; or
(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a combination, or other similar means.

The problem is there are no BATFE regs that cover gun safes in this context.

[Librarian]

Does the federal law have language about the gun lock having to be new/purchased within x # of days like the CA law?

No.

(z) Secure Gun Storage or Safety Device.—
(1) In general.— Except as provided under paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun.

(BTW, (z) is finally at the Cornell site; don't know where it's been for the last year or so... )

[stevie]

Not quite.

Dealers should be forgiven if they do business as if that were the case, but that is not what 18 USC 922 (z) requires; the law requires secure gun storage or a safety device, and those are defined to include a gun safe in 18 USC 921 (a) (34)

The problem is there are no BATFE regs that cover gun safes in this context.

And no forms to cover ones behind for gun safes from the ATF. Turners and others are just CYA in my lowly humble opinon.

[rivviepop]

So assuming the law is upheld (sic) and it's Turner's corporate policy dictating the lock purchase, doesn't that violate some sort of CA consumer protection law? Isn't this one of those "you can't make me buy X if I buy Y, that's bundling and illegal" situations - like when Best Buy tried to force people to buy the XBox360 bundle and claimed it couldn't sell otherwise, then they got sued?

[xj4play]

Why dont you just buy the stupid lock. Put newly purchased gun into your vehicle , walk back in and return the stupid lock? Do you think Turners will get a clue when this becomes the norm? I know 2 years ago they made me buy their lock even though my cz came with one. Earlier this year i purchased a sig and didn't have to buy a lock just signed my safe affidavit.

[kantstudien]

And yes, before I left I asked for the original lock back as I wanted to take it home and check it's status online. The dealer refused since he was not even allowed to handle or give out any lock that was not CA approved.

I'm not sure what lock comes with the Walther P99 (Master Lock 107?), but if the lock truly was not CA-legal, he cannot give, sell, or keep in his store. He can throw it in the dumpster and you can dumpster dive for it, that's about it.

[The SoCal Gunner]

I'm not sure what lock comes with the Walther P99 (Master Lock 107?), but if the lock truly was not CA-legal, he cannot give, sell, or keep in his store. He can throw it in the dumpster and you can dumpster dive for it, that's about it.

Is that Fed or CA law? Reading the PC on the DOJ website, it states...

12088.15. (a) No person shall keep for commercial sale, offer, or expose for commercial sale, or commercially sell any firearms safety device that is not listed on the roster maintained pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12088, or that does not comply with the standards for firearms safety devices adopted pursuant to Section 12088.2. (b) No person may distribute as part of an organized firearm safety program, with or without consideration, any firearm safety device that is not listed on the roster maintained pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12088 or does not comply with the standards for firearms safety devices adopted pursuant to Section 12088.2.

So the dealer is not selling a non-rostered lock but allowing the guy to have the lock might fall under section (b) of the pc?

[BigMac]

Earlyer this year I got a letter from the ATF about trigger locks. The letter did not have any specifics in it whatsoever. The letter said datails would follow.

I have yet to get any details about this new reg. So, I called up the ATF in Dublin today and spoke with a field inspector. (name withheld) I asked about the trigger lock regulation and she didn't know what I was talking about and was unable to give me any info.

She will get back to me in a couple days and I will post what she tells me.

I dont want to require trigger locks when a safe is available if I dont have to.

[Librarian]

Earlyer this year I got a letter from the ATF about trigger locks. The letter did not have any specifics in it whatsoever. The letter said datails would follow.

I have yet to get any details about this new reg. So, I called up the ATF in Dublin today and spoke with a field inspector. (name withheld) I asked about the trigger lock regulation and she didn't know what I was talking about and was unable to give me any info.

She will get back to me in a couple days and I will post what she tells me.

Tell her it's the "Child Safety Lock Act of 2005" and ATF talks about it on their public web site in the latest FAQ.

Geez. They oughta hire me as a consultant ...

[esskay]

Just did a PPT at a Turners this weekend. They must have gotten enough questions that they actually had a printout they showed me describing the policy and rationale.

I think it comes down to their interpretation of the language Librarian posted:

(z) Secure Gun Storage or Safety Device.—
(1) In general.— Except as provided under paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun.

I think Turners (very conservatively) interprets "provided" as meaning that they must sell you a lock.

IMO, another interpretation could be that it would be sufficient for the buyer to give the dealer a lock he already owns, then the dealer "provides" it back to the buyer along with the gun transfer.

[Librarian]

I think Turners (very conservatively) interprets "provided" as meaning that they must sell you a lock.

Yeah, the letter they sent April last year sure gives that impression.

IMO, another interpretation could be that it would be sufficient for the buyer to give the dealer a lock he already owns, then the dealer "provides" it back to the buyer along with the gun transfer.

Or, more simply, the buyer 'provides' it him/herself.

Further, since the law says a gun safe satisfies the requirement, it doesn't make sense that one would have to by a new safe with every purchase.

I emailed BATF back on June 28; no reply yet. I asked ... I guess we'll see sometime.

[CSACANNONEER]

I'm not sure what lock comes with the Walther P99 (Master Lock 107?), but if the lock truly was not CA-legal, he cannot give, sell, or keep in his store. He can throw it in the dumpster and you can dumpster dive for it, that's about it.

Can you site the law that states that says this? I can't believe that a lock would be illegal for a shop to have. If this is the case any hardware store that sells guns would be in violation. Right?

[U2BassAce]

I know one thing. I will never buy a safe from Turners.

[ccwguy]

I'm thinking if 'they' sell you the lock, and it's defective, thay are more liable than ever for the safety of said gun?!




That's why your local PD or Sheriff 'gives " them away for free, no liability for something you got free. If you went there and got there's would it be 'illegal?

[CRTguns]

To Clarify>>>

Federal law requires, that for a HANDGUN, the buyer have a locking device at the time of purchase. Given that you are in CA, that lock may as well be a CA compliant lock. (excludes the built in type on S&W, Springfield, Taurus, etc...) One may sign the affidavit in CA for a long gun purchase, if the dealer denies you that, the leave immediately. Although, they may be doing you a favor. The affidavit grants the state the right to enter your home and verify and inspect that safe.