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Load the rounds from a bag, so it's a blind load. But yes it does work better if someone else does it for you.
After taking a Bruce Gray class, I realized how important it is to know how your front sight behaves as you press the trigger. Do this while dry-firing at home. When at the range, when you start pressing the trigger increase pressure on the trigger evenly while maintaining the sight picture you want. As you increase pressure, if the sight picture starts to deteriorate maintain the level of pressure w/o increasing it and realign your sight picture. Once realigned begin to increase the pressure again until the shot breaks by surprise. If at any time this becomes uncomfortable because of lactic acid build-up in the arms, release pressure on the trigger, lower the weapon, and relax. When you're up to it again, begin again what I just described.
I know what I just described sounds very slow but with practice, trigger press, alignment, and front sight focus & tracking become much quicker. This will help with the groups and once you can track the front sight while shooting, follow-up shots and transitions get much faster."When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff
"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm XComment
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Not to discount what you're saying but aren't you contradicting yourself? When I shoot revolvers, I tuck my thumbs down and away from the cylinder action (as you noted for safety). But for semi-autos I use the thumbs parallel method for practical effectiveness. Like you say, one size does not fit all for firearms."When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff
"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm XComment
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No, both thumbs overlap well away from the cylinder. I do place my thumbs LOWER when shooting revolvers. Your point is well taken.Comment
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Tang, where you a few days ago? There was some blowhard trying to thumb his nose at the "surprise break" trigger control method. Sullied the thread enough that the OP probably left with bad shooting advice. Could have used your expertise!
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I must have missed that thread
You know faster shooters are now getting away from the Glass Rod trigger letoff we grew up with and are now going with a rolling letoff for more suprise
Edit: I found it, I had looked at it earlier and didn't realize it had gone down hill in the last couple of pages. You were right, some folks either can't read/comprehend or are just too invested in what they believe...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's TaleComment
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Update: Went back to the range and another 50rds.
I went back to the range today to try out some of the advice that "9mmepiphany" gave me a long with some others in this thread. Each group was shot with a Glock 23 shooting Blazer Brass 180gr. FMJ @ 7yds. I loaded each mag with 10rnds and fired one mag at each of the respective five targets.
Since this isn't the Beretta that I fired last week take the results for what they are. I'm getting ready for my first GSSF match next month which I'll be using the G23, so I figured I should practice with it until then.
My first 10 round group was horrible. I changed from my normal weaver stance to isosceles, and adjusted my grip to do the double stacked thumbs rather than overlapping. I took aim at center mass, and the first couple shots went OK, but it went to **** after that.
Not sure what happened. As you'll see below eventually all the shots went to the lower left, so I guess I was having an issue with anticipation.
Since that didn't really work out for me and since I was not that comfortable with iso, I went back to weaver and just kept the modified (double thumb stacked) grip.
Below are close ups of my best groups:
This is probably my best grouping wise. The shot circled in red are actually from my center target attempt using the iso stance, so try to disregard those. All though not on center 7:10 formed up real nice.
This is my best group center wise.
This is my last group. I am not sure if I was getting tired or just anxious to leave, but I would have like this to come out better. Although, not a complete loss.
The new grip worked out well IMHO. The only issue I had was my hands riding a little high on the frame which caused me to apply a little bi of pressure to the slide release and prevented the slide from locking. I'll have to work on that some. I think also just need work on some of the basic fundamentals (Sight Picture, & Trigger Squeeze) and things will come together nicely.
I actually feel pretty good about today's shoot. There were a couple of guys in the lane next to me that were all over the place. But, I guess we were all there at one point. Well, maybe not all, but I know I was. Maybe next time I'll offer them some friendly advice.
As always, I am open to more advice and feedback.Last edited by RoundEye; 03-13-2011, 7:46 PM.Comment
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It looks like your discomfort with the Isosceles arm position caused you to start snapping the trigger when your sights were on...trying to make the shots go off when they were centered...and causing the downward flinch.
It looks like you started a good group, but your wobble zone started to bother you and you tried to control it...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's TaleComment
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wobble zone? Is that where you start veer from side to side while maintain your sight picture?
Yea, you're right. I was pretty excited that the first few were dead on and then my excitement slowly lead to disappointment. I may try iso again next week to see if I can get any better results.Comment
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Watch this video please. Then watch it again.
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7-6-2 FTMFW!
"...and an old German guy said there was a bit of an unsaid joke about the Nazi salute; apparently when they clicked their heels and raised their arm up in the air in a Nazi salute, they were saying, "we're in this much s___."Comment
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A little help from 9mmEpiphany
This post is a little late, and long overdue, but Tang (9mmEpiphany) deserves a few nice words.
A few months back "9mmEpiphany" was traveling back from a GunSite class in AZ by way of SoCal which a gave us a chance to meet up.
First off, I'd like to say thanks to Tang for adding an extra day to his trip so we could meet up and spend sometime at the range.
When we got to the range the first thing Tang did was watch me shoot five rounds, and then we discussed my stance, sight picture, grip, and what I was feeling/going through my head during the string of fire. He then made some subtle recommendations, and I fired another string, and we continued this fire a group and instant feedback for the majority of the two hours or so we spent at the range. We mostly worked with my Glock 23 .40/.22lr, but I also ran some strings with an HKP2000 (.40), and a couple with a Kahr PM40. Tang was very attentive and provided me with some great feedback. The most valuable being that my thumbs from time to time would tighten causing my shots to be thrown a little low an left. With his recommendations, I am now very conscious of my thumb position and tension which has greatly improved my grouping. Don't get me wrong, I still throw a shot from time to time, but I am very pleased with my increase in performance thanks to his help.
This is at 7yds w/ P2000 (.40):
Thanks for everything Tang, and I hope we can meet again!
P.S. If you're in NoCal or are able to catch him on one of his trips I highly recommend that you take advantage of it!Last edited by RoundEye; 12-06-2011, 2:53 PM.Comment
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You have definitely improved. Congrats! It's awesome that 9mmEpiphany stopped by and was able to give you some one on one instruction.Comment
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Thanks for the kind words.
Roundeye was a pretty good shooter to start and just needed a better understanding of how certain things effected his shooting and how to correct them. You can't correct things you don't know are wrong and can't figure out how to correct them unless you understand the principles of why things should be done a certain way.
There are common faults that many newer shooters have that are easy to correct in person, but take forever on-line because the communication isn't exact and the observed affect isn't always accurate.
That target looks pretty good...the consistency is certainly there...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's TaleComment
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Well that's silly if you can't remember to change your grip from a semi-auto to revolver. Jerry Miculek is a perfect example using modified iso thumbs forward grip with a semi-auto and thumb over thumb with revolvers... I hear he's pretty good with both and long arms too
My opinions are my own and do not represent the position of other companies I may be involved with.Comment
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is it possible that your sights are off??Originally posted by Kestryll
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