Help with grouping

[jmzhwells]

90% grip with your weak hand over your primary should tighten up your groups. your primary hand needs to relax and concentrate on the trigger squeeze. Let the weak hand do the holding. Oh and you can put a dime or penny on the front of the slide near the front sight to work on you trigger squeeze to make sure you are not jerking the trigger. If the dime falls off, you will be off target.

[Spetsnazos]

subbed

[9mmepiphany]

Yea, I can tell. I did some searching, and the general consensus is that the ISO stance is better for matches and such, but the Weaver tends to be favored iIRL type scenarios.

Almost all the top training schools teach the Isosceles because you get back on target faster and recoil doesn't beat you up as much...that includes the schools teaching LEOs and others going into harms way

The left thumb generally overlaps might right (dominant) hand and the thumbs generally point down range at the target.

You feel like you have more control with that grip, but you are really compromising your grip by reducing the contact of the support hand on the gun

That is an interesting thought. At the local range they have a taget similar to that where you're suppose to bullseye 10 targets at 7yds on a larger piece of paper. If you can do it, you get a T-shirt, and they put the target it up on their wall Someday......someday....

Do you have to shoot it cold?
How's the lighting?
How large are the bulls you have to hit?

It is mostly a mental game, that's why they have you do it 10 times (more chances to pull a shot out)

I don't think I can justify that long a drive just for the shirt

[RoundEye]

Almost all the top training schools teach the Isosceles because you get back on target faster and recoil doesn't beat you up as much...that includes the schools teaching LEOs and others going into harms way

Interesting... I guess weaver is just old school and is fading out.

You feel like you have more control with that grip, but you are really compromising your grip by reducing the contact of the support hand on the gun.

If that is the case, how should my grip be? The thumb stacked method to increase contact with the gun?

Do you have to shoot it cold?

I don't think so. Just when you do you need to tell them as they either send someone out to watch, or peer they'll just peer at you through the window to make sure you don't cheat.

How's the lighting?

The lighting is so so. You can see enough, but it kind reminds me of a saw movie.

How large are the bulls you have to hit?

The target is about the size of or a little bigger than a silver dollar.
[/QUOTE]

[9mmepiphany]

If that is the case, how should my grip be? The thumb stacked method to increase contact with the gun?

something like this

The target is about the size of or a little bigger than a silver dollar.

Humm...You aren't too far from Santa Clarita. Maybe the next time I drive down to visit my son at CalArts, I'll throw one of the Sigs in the car

[RoundEye]

something like this

Nice... The little girl touch gave me a good laugh. I get it though, stack the thumbs aimed at the target.

Humm...You aren't too far from Santa Clarita. Maybe the next time I drive down to visit my son at CalArts, I'll throw one of the Sigs in the car

I'm about 20 minutes or so to the south. That would be cool. I'm a member at Firing Line, which only a couple miles from my house. Just let me know when, and I'll buy you lunch or something for making the trip.

[Spetsnazos]

I'm about 20 minutes or so to the south. That would be cool. I'm a member at Firing Line, which only a couple miles from my house. Just let me know when, and I'll buy you lunch or something for making the trip.

I'm down to join this meet as well , Firing Line is about half a mile from my house as well!

[Will Goes Boing]

My advice is, take a class and get some training. You need to master the fundamentals and get a good foundation. Otherwise no matter how much you practice it will be futile. Stance, grip, trigger, and along with it the little ancillary elements that makes up a good foundation cannot be taught online.

You would be amazed by how many little things there are that makes a huge difference. Not to mention using dry firing and snap caps as another form of training. As I said, you just need to take a class and get proper training if you are serious about becoming a better shooter. No offense but you'd be surprised how often you see "the blind leading the blind" at local ranges. People with improper technique teaching other people improper technique. Just my 0.02 cent.

[9mmepiphany]

Nice... The little girl touch gave me a good laugh.

It is actually a better picture than this one:



...but then she was only 8 years old

[RoundEye]

My advice is, take a class and get some training. You would be amazed by how many little things there are that makes a huge difference. Not to mention using dry firing and snap caps as another form of training.

I agree. I took a couple of lessons a few years ago, and man you should have seen my targets before then. Although, that instructor was a three time champion with the SCSA he still taught me the weaver stance which is supposedly inferior to the iso stance being taught today.

I still use snap caps at least once a week, but I think my problem is I know there are snap caps so I don't have any issues with trigger squeeze at home. But, when I'm at the range it's a totally different story.

[RoundEye]

It is actually a better picture than this one:
...but then she was only 8 years old

HaHa...very nice.. So that's a Kahr right? I was looking at a PM40 earlier today and man are the small. Single stack or not, it's hard to believe that it was a .40. If you have one you should bring that along too. :d

[IPSICK]

I agree. I took a couple of lessons a few years ago, and man you should have seen my targets before then. Although, that instructor was a three time champion with the SCSA he still taught me the weaver stance which is supposedly inferior to the iso stance being taught today.

I still use snap caps at least once a week, but I think my problem is I know there are snap caps so I don't have any issues with trigger squeeze at home. But, when I'm at the range it's a totally different story.

You must have just blew right by my post.

Dry-fire practice (UNLOADED) at home and see where the front sight goes to as you press the trigger and all the way until the trigger breaks. Front sight tracking during dry-fire makes you focus more on grip and trigger press without the distraction of recoil.

Then at the range, every once in a while blind load your magazine with at least one snap cap or dummy (so you don't know where it is in the mag) in the ammo you're pulling from and load mag then shoot. When you get to the dummy/snap cap you'll notice if you're anticipating recoil...

[locosway]

Also keep in mind that while your groups aren't tight, they're good enough for SD/HD. The people who claim to shoot 1.5" at 25 yards are either full of it, or they do so from a rest. If someone comes into your house, you aren't going to setup a rest and ask them to stand still.

As others have mentioned, training is ALWAYS good, even if you already have some. I wouldn't worry too much about the stance. I see competition shooters do iso, and defensive shooters do weaver or modified. You should find what works best for you and go with it, as there's no one style fits all.

You didn't say at what speed you were shooting. Are you slowly taking your time to make each round count, or are you blasting away and hoping for the best?

[MAC USMC]

Admittedly, I am very old school and tend to stick with what I have done for years, but for some very good reasons. The latest trend in gripping semi-autos is to place your thumbs parallel to each other along the frame of the handgun. This is taught in military units and in law enforcement circles who all use semi-autos. However, if you own multiple weapons as I do, this practice is UNWISE and could be quite dangerous. With a powerful revolver it is probable that a digit will be partially removed from the blast. This occurred at the Discount Gun Mart range in San Diego when a shooter tried out a friends .44 magnum revolver.

With firearms "one size fits all" does not apply, be careful and do not lock your mind around what could hurt you badly. I over-lap my thumbs so I can fire ANY HANDGUN without injury. Others might prefer another method for various reasons and that is their choice. SAFETY FIRST is the best rule to follow.

[locosway]