Idiot DFG!

[robcoe]

The way I see it, it doesn't matter if the officer learned anything about AW laws. That wouldn't be the issue for me. The thing that upsets me is that he thinks he can just take someones property and figure it out later.

This sums up the problem for me, the officer did not know the law and decided to just make it up on the spot, and since the definitions are very clear that bullets count as tools when removing a magazine

the officer did not just make a mistake, he was incompetent, and rather than admit that he decided to just create a law right there. In my opinion he should be fired for gross incompetence, citizens are held to the exact letter of the law, with ignorance being no excuse, we should expect no less from the people who enforce it.

[rodeoflyer]

Haven't seen much out of CGF in this thread. Me thinks i'll wait for more details before I make any assumptions, accusations, ascertions, or otherwise.

Congrats to the OP for getting the gun back in short order and good shape. Everything from here on out is gravy.

[IGOTDIRT4U]

So you can only have 5 rounds in your magazine while you sexually assault a farm animal? Good to know.

I'm friggin dying over here!!!!!!!!

[WDE91]

those who enforce the law need to know the law
I realize this is a wild concept for some who hold power over others
if you do not know the law, do not form laws on the spot
Instead if the officer was unsure of what the law was, he should have contacted someone who was more competent than he was

If Im not sure of something, I either figure it out myself or contact someone who is more knowledgeable on the subject

I dont just assume something, as that is what leads to problems

laws were broken
every action has a reaction

[CavTrooper]

Any word from CGF on what is happening?

[TurboChrisB]

Permanentness has nothing to do with it. In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. Period. If I "take" your car from your driveway, but intend to return it the next day...It's still been stolen.

No it isn't. Theft is the unlawful taking of personal property with the intent to permanently deprive the owner thereof.

[Cokebottle]

What I find ironic is that folks will chastise DFG for their lack of knowledge on this matter & I fully understand. But if a FFL doesn't have the same degree of knowledge (and we assume they are on our side) the FFL is not chastised as much. I had a FFL refuse a private party transfer on a legal AR lower. I explained the law to him (as if I had to) and he refused. He said he "heard" LEO was going to confiscate all lowers. I told him even if they did they would go to the buyer's house. All I got was a blank stare from him (no joke).

You haven't looked around much have you?

Every day there is a thread either created or bumped about FUD coming from a gun shop... Including frequent cries of "report them to the DOJ, they can't refuse a PPT if they sell that type of gun or charge $40 for a PPT!"

[Bhobbs]

Hold on folks... You're all up in arms because the OP had his rifle returned the day after, with no other ill effects? Yea, it should not have been seized in the first place, if it was a legally configured legally owned and possessed AR-pattern rifle. We all agree on that. But for craps sake, a mistake was fixed, in VERY short order, and you still want to hang the guy out to dry? Take into consideration the fact that each and EVERY one of you has made mistakes too. I know I sure as heck have. You think this officer doesn't now know a whole heckuva lot more about OLL and ARs and such? I bet he does. The OP didn't get tossed in jail, didn't have to pay for a lawyer to regain his personal legally owned property, and the officer now knows what is allowed.

Yea, if the rifle was legally configured, it shouldn't have happened in the first place. BUT, it was quickly remedied and an officer was educated. Sucks that it had to happen that way, and that the OP was temporarily deprived of his firearm, but it sure appears to be an honest mistake that was quickly fixed. No point in calling for the officer to be fired or otherwise destroy his life. I do think that the OP should be reimbursed for his time and costs incurred to recover the rifle. Who knows if that will happen. I don't think that mistakes are inforgiveable. There's a huge difference between maliciously seizing someones property because the officer wants to, and seizing an item that an officer mistakenly believes is part of or connected to a crime. It can't be easy, or even possible, to know every nuance of every bound book of laws and codes and regulations out there. No freaking way. I bet we all break laws every day that we don't know exist. And I bet if you got cited for something that you had been doing every day for twenty years you would freak out about it and say the cop was out to get you because you didn't even know it was a law. He made a mistake. Demand that everyone in his squad or county or whatever goes through a 2 hour firearms laws training course so that it doesn't happen again. That would be a whole heckuva lot more effective than stringing him up as some "example" and furthering the "us vs. them" mentality that is so prevalent out there.

One thing I really do wish is that more LEO around the state realized that long guns don't have to be registered. I've had that turn into an issue two or three times.

So you think LEO ignorance of the law and violation of civil rights is no big deal? LEO doesn't know the law and confiscates a guys rifle and you want him to get a pass.

You know what happens if you don't know the laws concerning AWs? Felony conviction and loss of gun rights. Is the CA DOJ gonna give you a slap on the wrist?

LEOs need to be held accountable for their actions.

[Cokebottle]

Any time I have my off list rifles out for a little fun, I always have the memo and flow chart with me, and I carry a badge.

+1
Well... not the badge part

Color printed flowchart(s) and PD/SD memos, laminated and on a ring, plus several "handout" B&W copies so the officer doesn't leave empty handed.

[Cokebottle]

No it isn't. Theft is the unlawful taking of personal property with the intent to permanently deprive the owner thereof.

Joyriders aren't prosecuted for GTA even when the vehicle is returned undamaged?

[wildhawker]

I haven't heard anything since 10/19 when we asked the OP to provide contact info and some details of the incident. Since the firearm is back with the OP, and we don't have any substantive details, there's not much to follow up on.

It's a mistake to assume that because we're not talking about something, we're not working on it. There's lots of activity on many different fronts which we look forward to publishing as soon as (a) it's complete or (b) doing so doesn't place something at risk.

In the meantime, I suggest everyone sponsor their county's CCW/Carry License reform and get ready for 58 Sheriffs to *really, really* hate not following the law.

-Brandon

Excellent point. CGF should be all over this. If we could get something from the AG office admitting that the BB is legal it would go a long way to ending FUD by some FFL's. Also I'm quite sure LEO's wouldn't have to waste their very busy schedual investigating if a "scary looking rifle" is legal or not..... or maybe the AG's office doesn't want to admit the BB is legal so they can continue to cost the law abiding gun owner legal fees to discourage gun ownership. Part of the "plan"?

[faterikcartman]

I don't think schools do a very good job teaching basic writing skills.

[FNH5-7]

OP, can you PM me where this happened? If I recall you're from Fresno as well? I'd just like to know where to stay clear of. Stupidy seems to roam some areas.

[greasemonkey]

In the meantime, I suggest everyone sponsor their county's CCW/Carry License reform and get ready for 58 Sheriffs to *really, really* hate not following the law.

You mean you want to know specifically where to go with a few AR's, a homebuilt-no-numbers AK and a couple of FlipHD video cameras??

OP, can you PM me where this happened? If I recall you're from Fresno as well? I'd just like to know where to stay clear of. Stupidy seems to roam some areas.

[mzimmers]

So you think LEO ignorance of the law and violation of civil rights is no big deal? LEO doesn't know the law and confiscates a guys rifle and you want him to get a pass.

LEOs need to be held accountable for their actions.

OK...so what do you suggest is appropriate punishment for a wrongful confiscation that's remedied within 24 hours?

If this happened to me, I'd ask the state for a lifetime hunting license, and a lifetime big game privileges as compensation. Value is about $1100, and would be a lot easier for everyone than getting lawyers involved...