"No Sales To CA?"

[gunenvy]

Since the CA DOJ has a reputation of not really knowing the laws that they are enforcing in regards to firearms, it seems like the risk factor is much higher.

If you have to shut the doors of your business due to a high cost legal battle that ends in a victory for you, because you never actually broke the law, you are still out of business.

The CA DOJ is not unique, ask the same question to 5 different ATF inspectors and you will get 5 different answers. This is a high risk (legally) industry because we have a lot of people gunning for us, we are after all the peddlers of death and destruction and will supply the next revolution, at least in their minds.

Really the law isn't difficult to follow or understand, we have a lawyer for when it is difficult.

Honestly at least CA lists handguns that are allowed etc unlike some states on the other coast that just like to make you guess if things are ok.

And the other side of that is that when we are shipping a firearm inbound, its going to an FFL in state too, giving another checkpoint of security and another set of eyes for things to be looked at by.

In the end it is down to each business to decide the risk vs reward of the venture. When they are small and get a headache just looking at the legal wording of things, or frankly think the internet is the devil's work (you would be surprised how many FFLs hate it) then i understand being shy about shipping to states where the laws are more complex. But we believe the reward is worth the work, we are after all capitalists and trying to make a living.


In my case, I've done all i can, we have studied the laws, the lawyer has helped us with various oddities, we work through a pretty robust and simple system in-house and carry the best insurance we can, so fingers crossed

[FatalKitty]

ONE MORE REASON TO SHOP LOCAL

do your part to support local business - the more you do this, the larger inventory these stores can justify keeping in stock and soon we won't even have to wait or order

[Kynoch]

Originally Posted by RedDawn
2. The seller does not know enough about California gunlaws, and would rather be safe than sorry and not have to deal with it altogether.

Since a single mistake could ruin your business, why risk it if you don't have to?

Because they're in business and a "single mistake" (with at least the federal paperwork) is already a possibility -- although I don't see how a single true mistake could ruin anyone's business. I can see why any firearms dealer may not want to get involved with selling OLLs or arms chambered for something like the .50 DTC but a universal self-imposed prohibition on doing business in such a HUGE market? That's downright stupid.

[Barabas]

Joedogboy, what kind of jurisdiction does CADOJ have over a dealer in another state? Are they going to do a compliance sting operation in Ohio?

The most likely thing to happen is that they delete the selling dealers login to the CFLC site.

[Theriverjustknows]

EASY..SCREW THOSE BASTARDS! Plenty other places to spend your coin!

Not when you're looking for OOP guns and the only one you can find is usually a misinformed FFL that says they're not set up for CA shipments. Anyone know of good way to explain to these seemingly un/misinformed FFL's how they can legally ship to CA w/o problems and w/o offending them. I realize some of them are making a political/business statement but others seem like they don't know so they don't bother with CA.

[Southpaw45]

By not selling guns into California, the liberal law making bastards of this state are getting there way. Its working just as they planned. To stop guns from coming into this state!!

[lugosr4]

what makes me mad are shops that are not all to willing to receive outside of Ca. sales
or shops that over charge on their fees

[Exile Machine]

In our gunbroker auctions we always close up with the following line:

AND THE BEST THING IS: WE SHIP TO CALIFORNIA!

If California were its own country, it's be the world's 8th largest economy (I've also seen 5th largest, depends on the source). You'd be pretty stupid not to jump through a few hoops to access a market of that size.

[bigthaiboy]

The paperwork stuff is BS. If they have a printer and 30 seconds to write some basic info about what they are shipping then they have enough time for the "extra paper work".

I have seen dealers on GB charge an extra $20 to $30 for CA residents for the extra 45 seconds, printer ink, and one piece of printer paper to print out the CFLC approval letter. These dealers must think their time is so valuable that they insist it's worth 75 cents per second.

[Kynoch]

In our gunbroker auctions we always close up with the following line:

AND THE BEST THING IS: WE SHIP TO CALIFORNIA!

If California were its own country, it's be the world's 8th largest economy (I've also seen 5th largest, depends on the source). You'd be pretty stupid not to jump through a few hoops to access a market of that size.

You're exactly right. That's why I'm not sure I would want to do business without anyone who so proudly proclaimed "We Don't Ship to CA" -- be it out of abject ignorance or some sort of misplaced pride...

[bsg]

i am burned out on the statements that exclude californians from purchase.

[Kynoch]

Gunbroker, Gunsamerica, etc. should not allow them to exclude California. In the end that's really a bunch of malarkey...

[joedogboy]

When you are operating from a position of fear, it is difficult to be rational.

This "chilling effect" on the right of Californians to keep and bear arms is a clear infringement, and is clearly the intent of many of the ridiculous and illogical California laws.

[HotRails]

It's been discussed several times.

Basically there are some reasons why they're not selling to Californians.

1. The seller has an axe to grind. He/she feels we're not doing enough to stop our state legislatures from coming up with anti-American gun laws, so they are punishing us by not selling to Californians.

Of all the reasons, this is the most annoying and self defeating of them all. Everytime someone goes to the range and explains the legality of an OLL, another person is awakened to the possibilities. CA is somewhat of a stress test for upcoming anit gun legislation too, any "stress" we can put on it makes it easier down the road and prevents expansion of certain laws into the federal realm when our innovations here essentially nullify them. The few people who are doing something, are doing ALOT!

[Flintlock Tom]

I am a daily shopper on Gunbroker and AuctionArms. Because my interest in specific C&R guns is so narrow I may watch for several years for a specific gun to be offered.
When a gun comes up that I want, but the seller says no sales to California, I write to him and ask why. I then explain: A) C&R long-guns are exempt from all the BS. B) The regulations only apply to transfers between two 001 FFLs, not private citizens and not 003 FFLs.
About 1 in 3 times I am able to convince the seller to allow me to bid. I win a few and lose a few, but now that seller is more educated.