I Will Never Buy Another Firearm From Taurus!!!!!

[MrTuffPaws]

The gun is 3 years old and I bought it brand new.

I have been shooting guns for over 20 years.

I shot black powder cartridges through the gun, because I was considering buying my retired father a civil war replica that fired cartridges and wanted to see what black power cartridges would be like. (In the end I bought him a true muzzle-loader 1851 Colt Navy Replica instead)

Black powder is very corrosive. (More so than I realized)
I regularly shoot rounds with corrosive primers through my Remington 30-06 with no problems but I guess black powder is much different.

They say to clean the gun right away. I took that to mean as soon as you get home, but it apparently means IMMEDIATLY after firing the gun.

When I got home a couple hours later and cleaned the gun with warm SOAP & WATER the bluing washed off like lipstick. I later lubed it up with some Break-Free, but the damage was already done.

Is it my fault for not cleaning it sooner? Yes.

Does that mean I deserved to be dicked around and lied to by Taurus for 4 months? Hell no!

So hold on. Your story does not add up. You stated that you bought the gun new, then shot 50 rounds of black powder rounds through it, then you state that the gun is three years old. Did you buy the gun and wait three years to shoot it 50 times? Nor do you mention how you cleaned it, with what, and how long you waited until you cleaned it.

Honestly, I own a couple of Taurus guns, both blued and stainless, and I have never had a problem with them unlike a few others that I have from very well known names.

Oh yeah, and as mentioned, the finish is only covered for 1 year. Not even S&W dose warranty work that is not covered.

Not to mention 4 posts with no background. I would be leery of calling you anything but a Taurus bashing troll that frequent the gun boards. I hope you can answer my questions and prove me wrong.

[redneckshootist]

I dought the black powder did that. I shoot alot of cap and ball revolvers and 45colt black powder hand loads and I usally get around to cleaning it 5or6 hours later and have never had that happen. If it was the black power causeing the damadge it would show major rust and pitting(my first 1851 colt rusted bad the gun was falling apart in my hands and I learned how impotain gun cleaning is.) I have bought 3 taurus guns and the revolvers never gave me problems but the pt140 was the biggest POS I have ever seen. I sold that gun cause I was tired of it.

[Namerakis]

So hold on. Your story does not add up. You stated that you bought the gun new, then shot 50 rounds of black powder rounds through it, then you state that the gun is three years old. Did you buy the gun and wait three years to shoot it 50 times? Nor do you mention how you cleaned it, with what, and how long you waited until you cleaned it.

Honestly, I own a couple of Taurus guns, both blued and stainless, and I have never had a problem with them unlike a few others that I have from very well known names.

Oh yeah, and as mentioned, the finish is only covered for 1 year. Not even S&W dose warranty work that is not covered.

Not to mention 4 posts with no background. I would be leery of calling you anything but a Taurus bashing troll that frequent the gun boards. I hope you can answer my questions and prove me wrong.

You think I went to all that effort to write a story that spans for 4 months for the fun of it????????? You think I designed those Taurus Invoices myself???

I bought the gun new 3 years ago and have fired hundreds and hudreds of regular rounds through it.

Then in December of last year I tried some black powder cartridges.

I waited a few hours before cleaning.

When I got home I filled up my bathroom sink with warm water, added a few squirts of hand soap and then poured in a bit of vinegar and then lowered the gun into the water and started rubbing it with my bare fingers. The water turned jet black and when I raised the gun from the water it looked like it does in the pics I took.

- If Taurus told me right off the bat it was my fault and they would not fix it, that would have been fine.

- If Taurus said the bluing is only covered for the first year of their "Unlimited Lifetime Repair Policy" and that they would fix it for a fee, that would have been fine too.

- But Taurus had my gun for 4 months sending it back to me twice and lied to me multiple times saying they were fixing it, and they never did.

- The gunsmith went so far as to lie about what he'd done, writing that he adjusted the non-adjustable fixed front site. WTF?

Some people seem to have a real hard time grasping the FACT that I NEVER ASKED TAURUS TO FIX IT FOR FREE!!!
THEY OFFERED over the phone and then NEVER FIXED A THING!!!.. LYING to me over and over again that it would be done but it never was.. not after sending it to them twice, not after four months in their possession.

If the day Taurus got my gun they called me and said it wasn't covered under warranty (even though the phone rep said it was) but they could fix it for $150, I would have said, ok hold on, reached in my pocket, grabbed my wallet, gotten out my Visa card, and been DONE with it right then and there! Who wouldn't have???

Instead they lied on the phone saying it would be fixed and told me to mail it to them. Then over the next four month they continued lying to me saying they were fixing it or were going to fix it, and they never did. They sent it back to my TWICE in the safe exact condition it was in when I mailed it to them, like a great big FU to me as their customer.

[Namerakis]

By the way, I printed out my entire document from that link and faxed it to Taurus's fax number once Tuesday and once today.

Despite what I said before, I think I may actually call them tomorrow morning just to see what they say. Maybe demand that I be allowed to speak to someone higher than these reps who have lied to me for months and months.

I can't help but wonder though if they'll just say the same thing again.... "Sorry sir, that was a mistake, we WILL fix it, pack it back up and we'll have FedEx pick it up again and fix it for sure this time! Ha! We'll see.

[CALI-gula]

...clean a gun with hand soap, vinegar and water and expect the finish to last? ....

I've heard hot soapy water is best for cleaning black-powder guns to prevent corrosion. But what kind of soap? But I've never heard using vinegar, though that deosn't sound crazy or anything either. It sounds as if there may have been a chemical reaction of some kind, or one or more of the things in the "solution" created acted as a catalyst to lift off the bluing. Maybe the steel had a high non-ferrous content of some kind and worked on that portion of the steel alloy? Such as everyone knows what happens to a penny dipped in vinegar - maybe this caused an issue?

I will say though, that the more that is revealed about this story, the less Taurus appears to be the Devil incarnate. Their response time is clearly lacking, but it seems that they may have been as dumbfounded about what you wanted at the beginning; who you spoke to on the phone may have not communicated well to the shop guy.

What I've learned from this is that if I ever had to send any gun in for repair work, covered or not, it would be smart to wrap the gun in my printed instructions of what the gun needs repair-wise so the eventual end-guy doing the work would have no mistake about its needs.

Also, being more forthcoming from the start about how it happened can go a long way. In their reception of the gun, they would see it was 3 years old, and might conclude the bluing wear was from 3 years of heavy use, and assume it was normal. Wanting a 3 year old gun re-blued is a bit presumptuous - and most don't think it to be covered by the manufacturer - and most get a re-blue at a local smith.

But I do wish you luck with this - I would like to see Taurus give better customer service, and no matter of fault or why, or if you had to pay or not, they should have replied faster in all cases.

I don't own ANY Taurus guns, so I can't say this would ever be an issue - however, I know I WOULD by a 608 if I could get my hands on one in CA - it's not on the DOJ/BOF? list.
.

[Namerakis]

I've heard hot soapy water is best for cleaning black-powder guns to prevent corrosion. But what kind of soap? But I've never heard using vinegar, though that deosn't sound crazy or anything either. It sounds as if there may have been a chemical reaction of some kind, or one or more of the things in the "solution" created acted as a catalyst to lift off the bluing. Maybe the steel had a high non-ferrous content of some kind and worked on that portion of the steel alloy? Such as everyone knows what happens to a penny dipped in vinegar - maybe this caused an issue?

Adding a little bit of vinegar to the soapy water is recommended because it counteracts the strong corrosive base that the black powder residue is

I will say though, that the more that is revealed about this story, the less Taurus appears to be the Devil incarnate. Their response time is clearly lacking, but it seems that they may have been as dumbfounded about what you wanted at the beginning; who you spoke to on the phone may have not communicated well to the shop guy.

Taurus's devil-like behavior was lying to me over and over again when they never intended to refinish the gun. When I explicitly asked them if they would I was told yes again and again. But they all turned out to be lies. Also when I spoke to the first rep on the phone I explained EXACTLY what I did to the gun and what was wrong with it. I also included that in my original letter which can be seen in my doc I linked to. Also once she asked me for the serial number and typed it into her computer she knew EXACTLY where and when the gun was purchased. In fact she recited it to me so I could verify it was correct.

What I've learned from this is that if I ever had to send any gun in for repair work, covered or not, it would be smart to wrap the gun in my printed instructions of what the gun needs repair-wise so the eventual end-guy doing the work would have no mistake about its needs.

Also, being more forthcoming from the start about how it happened can go a long way. In their reception of the gun, they would see it was 3 years old, and might conclude the bluing wear was from 3 years of heavy use, and assume it was normal. Wanting a 3 year old gun re-blued is a bit presumptuous - and most don't think it to be covered by the manufacturer - and most get a re-blue at a local smith.

The second time I sent the gun back to Taurus I DID write a note explaining what I wanted done to the gun and SECURELY taped it to the top of the Taurus box which was then packed in a FEDEX box. Upon receiving the gun in return, the note was ripped off the box with some slivers of the scotch tape still intact. The gunsmith saw the note for sure.

But I do wish you luck with this - I would like to see Taurus give better customer service, and no matter of fault or why, or if you had to pay or not, they should have replied faster in all cases.

I don't own ANY Taurus guns, so I can't say this would ever be an issue - however, I know I WOULD by a 608 if I could get my hands on one in CA - it's not on the DOJ/BOF? list.
.

Thanks!

[JPN6336]

In the case of firearms at a manufacturer I think there is a big difference between taping instructions to the top of a box, even if it's in another box for shipping, and wrapping it around the gun. Especially at a place that seems as busy with warranty work as Taurus is (another reason not to buy one) the technician likely takes the gun out of the box ignoring all else, and proceeds to inspect and function check the firearm in a standardized manner with no concern for your instruction sheet on the box. They seem to have found things out of spec the first time you sent it in which would tend to support this theory. Is it good customer service to not have a detailed sheet of their own with your complaint...probably not but service doesn't seem to be a strong point of budget operations otherwise they could charge more for their product. Maybe you could send it back again with a rolled up note in the barrel and each chamber as well as a few layers of instruction letters taped on the gun itself.

[xenophobe]

When I first saw the pictures, I immediately thought it looked acid washed and your story didn't add up. I don't doubt how long they took to send it back to you, but I highly doubted that you were telling the complete truth about your cleaning methods.

Now that I see later in the post that you used vinegar, you probably used too much and let it sit for too long.

Soap and water and maybe a little bit of AMMONIA, not vinegar to clean corrosive residue. Sweet's 7.62 and Hoppe's Benchrest will also clean corrosive residue. Hence the reason some people use WINDEX to clean corrosive residue from firearms. I've never heard of using vinegar.

Any kind of acidic solvent will remove bluing. The fact that I see your fingerprints on the barrel shroud means that you had direct contact and let it sit too long in your 'cleaning mix'. Otherwise your fingerprints wouldn't be etched into the finish like it is on the barrel shroud. Your freaking fingerprints are ETCHED INTO THE BLUING!

Coca Cola will also do the same thing if it spilled on it and sat for a while. This is completely your fault and not that of Taurus.

[redneckshootist]

When I first saw the pictures, I immediately thought it looked acid washed and your story didn't add up. I don't doubt how long they took to send it back to you, but I highly doubted that you were telling the complete truth about your cleaning methods.

Now that I see later in the post that you used vinegar, you probably used too much and let it sit for too long.

Soap and water and maybe a little bit of AMMONIA, not vinegar to clean corrosive residue. Sweet's 7.62 and Hoppe's Benchrest will also clean corrosive residue. Hence the reason some people use WINDEX to clean corrosive residue from firearms. I've never heard of using vinegar.

Any kind of acidic solvent will remove bluing. The fact that I see your fingerprints on the barrel shroud means that you had direct contact and let it sit too long in your 'cleaning mix'. Otherwise your fingerprints wouldn't be etched into the finish like it is on the barrel shroud. Your freaking fingerprints are ETCHED INTO THE BLUING!

Coca Cola will also do the same thing if it spilled on it and sat for a while. This is completely your fault and not that of Taurus.

I agree I searched my manuals and online and all referances I found stated ammonia, water, soap, and or commercial cleaning solvents. The only reverences to vinager were to remove bluing

[Sydwaiz]

"This warranty does not cover grips, sights, accessories, cosmetic defects after one year, or damage caused by customer abuse at any time. Taurus will not be responsible for these items."

I think you failed to mention to the nice lady on the phone the first time you called how old the gun actually was. I'm sure she assumed it was a new gun and then of course it would have been repaired. But since you omitted that information from your conversation, you have no one to blame but yourself. If you read the warranty and realized that the damage was NOT covered, you might not be in this situation to begin with.

With that said...Wanna sell it?

[FMJBT]

Got an airbrush?

http://www.lauerweaponry.com/duracoatcolors.cfm?colortype=stock&Category=220

Mike

[randy]

I have to admit I haven't read the whole thread but.

You can call me a Taurus bashing troll if it makes you feel better but they are junk. Are there some out there that work sure are there many that don't work out of the box HELL yeah. I know I've seen many of them.

And Tuff Paws hot water and soap have been used since there has been black powder to clean black powder guns. Did you know if you shoot corrosive ammo you can stop the corrosion with some windex?

[Directshot]

A little knowledge about the powder your going to shoot in your gun BEFORE you shoot IS A GOOD THING. Black powder, corrosive ammo, know how and when to clean the weapon before shooting the ammo. And please, don't think that I'm defending Taurus.... I'm not. Hummm, some folks don't read the precautions on Med's before taking them either.

[Pvt. Cowboy]

If Taurus won't give you satisfaction, here's is what I would honestly recommend that you do:

Send the pistol to Arizona Response Systems -- http://arizonaresponsesystems.com/ -- and have them apply a new METALCOL finish to the gun.

I'd do it in Urban Camo. You can see the finishes on their 'Finishes' page here: http://arizonaresponsesystems.com/fi...ishgallery.htm

[Namerakis]

When I first saw the pictures, I immediately thought it looked acid washed and your story didn't add up. I don't doubt how long they took to send it back to you, but I highly doubted that you were telling the complete truth about your cleaning methods.

Now that I see later in the post that you used vinegar, you probably used too much and let it sit for too long.

Soap and water and maybe a little bit of AMMONIA, not vinegar to clean corrosive residue. Sweet's 7.62 and Hoppe's Benchrest will also clean corrosive residue. Hence the reason some people use WINDEX to clean corrosive residue from firearms. I've never heard of using vinegar.

Any kind of acidic solvent will remove bluing. The fact that I see your fingerprints on the barrel shroud means that you had direct contact and let it sit too long in your 'cleaning mix'. Otherwise your fingerprints wouldn't be etched into the finish like it is on the barrel shroud. Your freaking fingerprints are ETCHED INTO THE BLUING!

Coca Cola will also do the same thing if it spilled on it and sat for a while. This is completely your fault and not that of Taurus.

If you seriously think that soaking the gun for a few minutes in an sink full of soapy water with only a couple tablespoons of vinegar added is what removed the bluing rather than leaving is coated with corrosise black powder soot for hours, then you've gotta be out of your freaking mind.

Either way it doesn't matter. Taurus told me they would fix it, multiple times, but never did. Simple as that.