Issues with an FFL

[B Strong]

No legit investor would go out and actually buy these products himself. In fact, there were plenty of lower-risk ways of buying into the panic situation without resorting to something as silly as that.

You missed the point of both my post, and the post I referred to.

In the event an individual investor or group of investors could buy out the manufacturing run of some item in high demand, they then have control over a certain market, or a segment of that market.

Remember when the Hunt brothers attempted to corner the market on silver?

2009 market:

Ammo was selling at over 100% mark-up on some calibers.

Primers and powder were similar.

AR uppers? 50 - 100% mark-up.

Where there is money to be made, someone will jump in.

I'm sure a few Calgunners made money during the 1999 high-cap magazine panic, and the same goes for 1994 country-wide.

There may well be individuals or groups trying to do the same with ammo and components right now.

Time will tell.

[freakshow10mm]

I seriously doubt the trend will continue. I know of a lot of industry businesses that are closing, even after this recent sale surge. Ammo is now coming back on the shelf at a lot of dealers, ARs are sitting on the shelf collecting dust, cheap POS WASR AKs are back to sub $400 and no one's buying, to illustrate a few.

[Serpentine]

I seriously doubt the trend will continue. I know of a lot of industry businesses that are closing, even after this recent sale surge. Ammo is now coming back on the shelf at a lot of dealers, ARs are sitting on the shelf collecting dust, cheap POS WASR AKs are back to sub $400 and no one's buying, to illustrate a few.

True, but a new wave is coming with the SCOTUS decision this year. Whatever the outcome there, good or bad, will dramatically affect the firearms and related businesses.

As mentioned, the Hunt brothers and their historical control of the silver market is a perfect example. De Beers is another example with diamonds. Big money talks and opportunists are abound for these conditions.

You control the ammunition, you control the firearms business. Smarter yet is to control the primers. Way smaller investment then trying to buy up all the ammo. Perfect leveraging and huge control over ammo manufacturing. You would be able to charge whatever the market will bear - an empire forming over the firearms business.

Now (not trying to be an alarmist, really), but consider another domestic event like Katrina, a major earthquake, a Rodney King type blow-up, an unexpected executive order or another terrorist event like 911, etc. The empire that bought the primers gets an incredible return on their investment and risks, plus they dynamically control law enforcement all the way down to home defense. Fear will fuel their empire. How could they possibly lose?



Sorry OP for the infringement, if your situation doesn't improve with your lower, cancel the transaction and I will send you a free quality lower to your favorite transfer dealer.




.




.

[Stormfeather]

Sorry OP for the infringement, if your situation doesn't improve with your lower, cancel the transaction and I will send you a free quality lower to your favorite transfer dealer.

Now that is a man right there that I will do business with once I get back to California. Point Blank, no BS.

[VaderSpade]

Fear will fuel their empire. How could they possibly lose?

Given ample time in a free market the high price of primers will be seen as an opportunity for new manufactures to jump in and make money. This will over supply the market; people will start dumping primers before the bottom falls out with will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[B Strong]

Fear will fuel their empire. How could they possibly lose?

Given ample time in a free market the high price of primers will be seen as an opportunity for new manufactures to jump in and make money. This will over supply the market; people will start dumping primers before the bottom falls out with will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Given enough money, and granted the restrictions on establishing manufacturing facilities for chemicals, a cartel that controls a large segment of primer and/or powder output is not going to have to worry about upstarts for a long time.

A cartel with enough money could also probably interfer with the establishment of new manufacturing facilities as well, using the age old custom of donating large amounts of cash to the politicians involved in permit application and approval.

[Serpentine]

Fear will fuel their empire. How could they possibly lose?

Given ample time in a free market the high price of primers will be seen as an opportunity for new manufactures to jump in and make money. This will over supply the market; people will start dumping primers before the bottom falls out with will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In a perfect world, I'm with you and would like to see that happen for all of our benefit, but the chemicals used in primers are in a far different realm than smokeless cartridge powders.

Black gun powder, which is an explosive and is extremely dangerous to produce - pales in comparison to primer chemicals. There are only a few black powder producers in the world, so you can see where this is going.

Imagine the hoops you would have to go through to produce solid rocket fuel or high grade explosives and you would probably be talking to the same Pentagon level licensing authorities to start up a primer production plant.



.

[VaderSpade]

China

[Serpentine]

China

Banned from ammunition and firearm importation to the USA.




.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

This thread has gone off the cliff. You may be cruising for a lock.

[Serpentine]

This thread has gone off the cliff. You may be cruising for a lock.

If what I have contributed is good cause for a "lock," and if the OP and moderators agree, say the word and I will delete all my replies, send the OP a free lower, and pay his transfer fees to boot and politely bow out of here.

I'm not into all the infighting with my brothers in arms and that is why I do not post often here unless my passion to work together instead of against ourselves gets the best of me. Hopefully I have some brothers on my team here and have not done anything critically harmful to anyone.



.





.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

I cry your pardon if I have given offense. I just thought it's way crazy, way out there to think that someone is going to contract with ALL the manufacturers for ALL the primers and corner the market. Maybe I'm wrong.

You're clearly a man of conviction and a FFL with rare generosity. We need more like you.

I'll just quietly fade out of this post and leave the discussion to you all. Like others I'll check back to see if there is a good end to this story tomorrow.

[badseed]

If what I have contributed is good cause for a "lock," and if the OP and moderators agree, say the word and I will delete all my replies, send the OP a free lower, and pay his transfer fees to boot and politely bow out of here.

I understand your concern and compassion for the questionable circumstances that could feasibly occur thus severely impeding our 2nd amendment rights. Regardless of whether or not your comments are merely rumors, we must all be prepared for the worst case scenario. Unfortunately we cannot assume that there will always be ample supplies readily available for you and I to purchase. Honestly, if someone wanted to control the market, seeking out primers is the cheapest, most logical approach without infringing on legal boundaries.

PS. I would never turn down an offer such as a free lower

[SJgunguy24]

I understand your concern and compassion for the questionable circumstances that could feasibly occur thus severely impeding our 2nd amendment rights. Regardless of whether or not your comments are merely rumors, we must all be prepared for the worst case scenario. Unfortunately we cannot assume that there will always be ample supplies readily available for you and I to purchase. Honestly, if someone wanted to control the market, seeking out primers is the cheapest, most logical approach without infringing on legal boundaries.

PS. I would never turn down an offer such as a free lower

Serpentine (Barry) is a good guy and I have known him for a while, and he's not gonna make stuff up. Somethings up and he's getting the word out.

To the OP, if this guy is dicking you around, take Barry up on his offer then sick the dogs on the FFL. When you ordered the lower your invoice should've had the serial# off the lower. If thats the CMMG then you got hosed, if not, you have a stolen firearm from an FFL.....A federal felony.

Hoping for the best, but you do have leverage if it goes south.

[badseed]

Thanks to everyone who offered ideas and support. The FFL contacted me this morning after reading this thread to inform me that he did have my lower. As to why it was not there on Friday who knows but the fact remains I now have it.