Issues with an FFL

[Stormfeather]

Stormfeather-

Is that The North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes, or that other NAMBLA

Of course not, it stands for New Age Metal Bending Lovers Association. Duh. . . .

[Stormfeather]

I have apparently chosen the worst FFL in the area from whom to transfer a California legal AR lower through. Here is a quick background; I met with the dealer to discuss having the lower shipped to him. He politely acknowledges and sends his FFL information to the company. Two weeks go by and he has not called about my lower being in so I decide to stop in an see. Wow, low and behold my lower had arrived a few days earlier and he never got around to calling me. O.K. no big deal but when I asked to see the lower he shows me a completely different lower. I tell him that is not mine and after explaining why, he began to thumb through his transaction paperwork and realizes that he gave my lower to someone else.. The dealer explains that he knows the guy and that he will have the lower back in the store before my wait period is over and for my trouble he gives me three boxes of WOLF ammo.

Today I call him because I was supposed to pick up my lower tomorrow and guess what, he is not available and his employee tells me that the lower is not in the store. Remember, I filled out all of my paperwork 9 days ago, thumb print and all in addition to paying his ridiculous $100 fee (including BG check). The employee says that I will have to talk to the owner on Monday because as far as he can tell they do not have my lower.

What do I do other than restrain myself from strangling this guy?
What are my rights?
What leverage do I have ATF, DOJ?
Does anyone have any legal requirements that he has failed ot meet as an authorized FFL?

Thanks for any advice or information.

I just want to point out, the $100.00 fee is usually a "Recieved Merchandise" Fee. You are using a business FFL, do you think they should perform this service for free? You purchased something, more than likely offline, and cut them completely out of the purchase process. So at this point, all they've made for their effort is that whopping $10.00 off of the DROS. How long do you think any FFL would be in business if they didnt do this? Ive seen this fee range from nothing (like when you spend thousands and thousands of dollars yearly at one FFL) to $150.00 and all sorts of prices in between, consider yourself lucky. Just from your conversation, Im also curious, is this your first firearm youve purchased? The reason im asking is, you seem pretty irate over a seemingly small issue. (and the threatening to strangle the guy, well, that doesnt look good for you at all.)

What do you mean that I have 30 days?

Other than the obvious reasons I am concerned that the dealer does not care about my situation which infuriates me; not the fact the he screwed up. As I stated his faults began when he failed to call an inform me that he had received the lower. From there is was the battle I had with him to prove that the CMMG lower was not mine. Then when he said he would call the guy and offered some ammo I replied by saying that as long as its here in 10 days, no problem. The flames began to ignite when his employees searched the safes and could only find the same CMMG lower that the owner tried to pawn off on me in the first place. Really, I don't want to burn this guy unless on Monday he actually does not have my lower and he failed to inform me of making arrangements to remedy the situation. I am just looking for options should the situation end up being worse case.

As I stated earlier, theres multiple mitigating circumstances here, like you very well may have been talking to a part time employee that doesnt know squat about the situation, but wants to help, or the Boss may have the lower already in his possession in another safe, the guy who mistakenly has yours may not be able to get down there to drop it off due to work hours, whatever. Theres a ton of mitigating circumstances here, just let it play out. It usually all works out in the end, no need to get fired up. In the worse case scenario, the guy who has yours wont give it back because he wants to be a "richard" about it, the FFL contacts DOJ, and they handle it. No amount of screaming or threatening is going to make this happen any faster, and contacting DOJ is going to get you nothing more than a civil servant who more than likely will be very uninterested in the situation. Its not like they will want to go out of their way for a OLL when they screwed the pooch in the first place and let us get them into the state in the first place. Im not trying to minimize your situation, but in the overall picture of firearms ownership in the state of california, I seriously doubt DOJ is going to send out ninja stormtroopers to kick in someones door to confiscate a lower.

when you stated. . . .

The flames began to ignite when his employees searched the safes and could only find the same CMMG lower that the owner tried to pawn off on me in the first place.

it gives the impression that youve been in there multiple times and im sure talking to multiple people about the situation. Honestly, I would cut the middlemen (employees) out the conversation, and talk only to one person. Talk to the boss and leave it at that. When you start involving multiple people into the mix, you only add more mud on the carpet. Keep it to one person and it minimizes the Bovine Scatology for the most part.

Your best bet is to plan ahead, ie: . . . . .

1- if the dros expires, ensure that the FFL pays for it when he runs it again.
2- ask for the FFL to contact DOJ while you are there in their presence.
3- bring those phone numbers to DOJ Firearms Branch with you.
4- ask the FFL what steps is he going to take to ensure that this all works out the way its supposed to.
5- ask and confirm when would be a good date to check back on the ongoing progress.
6- pump your brakes, be patient, and cordial, you win more bees with honey than beer.

Good luck, and please keep us informed of the status.

[badseed]

In basic response to the last few suggestions and oddly in-depth acronym marathon, this is not the first the firearm I have purchased, this is merely the worst transfer I have ever been forced to deal with. A lot of your suggestions and are based on assumptions that may be in part my fault for not completely detailing out the situation. However, I have kept the dialogue between myself and the owner until just the other day when I called the shop to verify my lower had been returned at which time I had no other choice than to talk to the employee who by the way is full time. Additionally, I have not been pestering the owner or the employee because as I stated earlier I knew that I had to wait a week and a half anyways so I had no reason to really complain until I heard that 10 days later my lower was still not available. Being a logical individual I assumed that the owner would have contacted me prior to the end of my waiting period if for some reason he was not able to get the lower back from his "friend". But then again that is just me and perhaps I should assume that I am at fault for using this guy and not pin point his ignorance and arrogance.

[badseed]

Your best bet is to plan ahead, ie: . . . . .

1- if the dros expires, ensure that the FFL pays for it when he runs it again.
2- ask for the FFL to contact DOJ while you are there in their presence.
3- bring those phone numbers to DOJ Firearms Branch with you.
4- ask the FFL what steps is he going to take to ensure that this all works out the way its supposed to.
5- ask and confirm when would be a good date to check back on the ongoing progress.

This is basic approach I intend on using because as of right this second I cannot 100% say that my lower is still MIA; its just that all signs point to yes.

[Requiem]

Where is the "Don't take any action, we need every shi**y FFL to stay open in CA" crowd??

AFAIK, that crowd ARE the ****ty FFL's :P
Or their good old boys club friends.

[Stormfeather]

This is basic approach I intend on using because as of right this second I cannot 100% say that my lower is still MIA; its just that all signs point to yes.

Hopefully its waiting on ya when ya get there! Keep us informed of the status, if it isnt, hopefully we can point you to the "Right People" to help ya straighten this mess out!

[Purple K]

This kinda reminds me of the story about the old bull and the young bull....... "No, let's just WALK down there and do them all"

[Serpentine]

Please be patient with your CA FFL's. They are dying on the vine rapidly. Not many start-ups either. Once they're gone, there is no alternative for firearm purchasing in CA, period.

Your FFL's are caught in a crossfire right now between extremely intricate federal, state, county, local and city ordinance compliance issues, post 911, 11/04/08 administration election uncertainty - and end buyer demand/urgency.

There's not much in stock (from the quality manufacturers) these days from many top distributors.


Most buyers have no idea of the unbelievable back office paperwork, data entry, accounting, our current adverse Constitution battles, record breaking Christmas orders, and ammo panic orders.

[Side note: ammo availability is going to get very bad, very quickly AGAIN based on recent Shot Show information, so be alert].


The big Shot Show in Las Vegas is going on through the month of January and many owner/dealers are there right now, not fully able to attend to routine business.

Now, heads up. Many don't know about "Buyers Groups."

Buyers groups are big money conglomerates, investors, racketeers, and financiers - above the distributor/dealer level. Primers, ammo, and top selling firearms have recently become a commodity like silver and gold. Many top firearm, ammunition, and primer manufactures are selling up the river to these fat cash cats. Expect to pay far more $ for choice items and ammo in the near future.

CA dealers are struggling with the out of state dealer competitors who have way lower overhead and state compliance issues.

Some one said to me once "If you want to make a small fortune in the California firearms business, you have to start with a LARGE fortune!"


Please be patient with your FFL's in these complex and troubled times.


Thank You.



.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

[Side note: ammo availability is going to get very bad, very quickly AGAIN based on recent Shot Show information, so be alert].
.

If you have a secret that you can't tell anyone about don't go around saying "I have a Secret!"

If you know something that no one else does and want to share it with us - Tell it straight out.

Are you suggesting that we all go out and buy lots of ammo right now? Are you trying to promote more panic ammo buying?

What do you mean "Be alert?" Like no one here would notice if ammo prices doubled again?

What do you mean "Recent Shot Show information?" Like they put a little slip of paper in with your registration information that reads "Warning - All Ammo prices to double on Monday after Shot Show. And then ammo supplies will just dry up entirely."

Would you be so kind as to clarify this statement?

[Serpentine]

If you have a secret that you can't tell anyone about don't go around saying "I have a Secret!"

If you know something that no one else does and want to share it with us - Tell it straight out.

Are you suggesting that we all go out and buy lots of ammo right now? Are you trying to promote more panic ammo buying?

What do you mean "Be alert?" Like no one here would notice if ammo prices doubled again?

What do you mean "Recent Shot Show information?" Like they put a little slip of paper in with your registration information that reads "Warning - All Ammo prices to double on Monday after Shot Show. And then ammo supplies will just dry up entirely."

Would you be so kind as to clarify this statement?

I'm not trying to hide anything. There are no secrets or "warning notifications" being passed out. These were RUMORS at the Shot Show about primers. Do you want me to spread those rumors when I don't have any proof of them as being fact? If you don't want to know about any rumors then don't read on from here.

The RUMORS are that the someone with big money has bought up and back-ordered all the primers from some of the big manufacturers for several years to come. I hope that is just a rumor and nothing more, nevertheless, it got my attention - do with it what you will.

Then, at the Winchester Ammunition booth (more like a cafeteria in size), they had about forty reps working and dealers waiting to catch their attention. I finally caught up with one to start talking about a 230K order for several ranges, LE agencies and academies. They simply said "We are under water right now!" And that was day one.


Maybe you shouldn't "panic," but perhaps be aware and conservative with ammo you have on hand at the least.


.

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[paul0660]

He gets in your lower, doesn't tell you, and gives it to a friend while trying to give you a lesser model.

I can't wait for Monday.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

I'm not trying to hide anything. There are no secrets or "warning notifications" being passed out. These were RUMORS at the Shot Show about primers. Do you want me to spread those rumors when I don't have any proof of them as being fact? If you don't want to know about any rumors then don't read on from here.

The RUMORS are that the someone with big money has bought up and back-ordered all the primers from some of the big manufacturers for several years to come. I hope that is just a rumor and nothing more, nevertheless, it got my attention - do with it what you will.

Then, at the Winchester Ammunition booth (more like a cafeteria in size), they had about forty reps working and dealers waiting to catch their attention. I finally caught up with one to start talking about a 230K order for several ranges, LE agencies and academies. They simply said "We are under water right now!" And that was day one.

Maybe you shouldn't "panic," but perhaps be aware and conservative with ammo you have on hand at the least.

Now I call that 'telling it straight out.' Nicely clarified. I'd say that is interesting and may prove to be valuable. Thank you kindly sir.

[Serpentine]

Now I call that 'telling it straight out.' Nicely clarified. I'd say that is interesting and may prove to be valuable. Thank you kindly sir.

You are welcome.

My apologies to the OP for getting a little off track. I hope the situation gets straightened out on the lower.


.

[B Strong]

Please be patient with your CA FFL's.

[Side note: ammo availability is going to get very bad, very quickly AGAIN based on recent Shot Show information, so be alert].


The big Shot Show in Las Vegas is going on through the month of January and many owner/dealers are there right now, not fully able to attend to routine business.

Now, heads up. Many don't know about "Buyers Groups."

Buyers groups are big money conglomerates, investors, racketeers, and financiers - above the distributor/dealer level. Primers, ammo, and top selling firearms have recently become a commodity like silver and gold. Many top firearm, ammunition, and primer manufactures are selling up the river to these fat cash cats. Expect to pay far more $ for choice items and ammo in the near future.

CA dealers are struggling with the out of state dealer competitors who have way lower overhead and state compliance issues.

Some one said to me once "If you want to make a small fortune in the California firearms business, you have to start with a LARGE fortune!"


Please be patient with your FFL's in these complex and troubled times.


Thank You.



.

I believe that you may be correct.

I was approached by an individual last year that has no personal interest in firearms, but had read and heard the stories put out about the Opanic buying spree, and wanted to know how to best exploit it as an investment opportunity.

If he thought about it, I'm sure other did too - and this guy has millions to work with.

With that kind of money to invest, there's almost no limit to what he could arrange with a manufacturer.

[audihenry]

I believe that you may be correct.

I was approached by an individual last year that has no personal interest in firearms, but had read and heard the stories put out about the Opanic buying spree, and wanted to know how to best exploit it as an investment opportunity.

If he thought about it, I'm sure other did too - and this guy has millions to work with.

With that kind of money to invest, there's almost no limit to what he could arrange with a manufacturer.

No legit investor would go out and actually buy these products himself. In fact, there were plenty of lower-risk ways of buying into the panic situation without resorting to something as silly as that.