Pro Gun Argument in CA, please help me!

[Dangerous1]

There can be many ways in which you can have an ill effect on the views by others from your presentation. Please take extreme caution in your words.

For instance, "A Mini-14 with a rifle stock is just as deadly as an AR-15. Look at the 1986 Miami FBI Shootout. Those guys didn't need an AR-15"

[bomb_on_bus]

If guns are to blame for gun violence, then matches are to blame for arson.

Just like pencils are to blame for spelling errors

[PaperPuncher]

Tell that to the police in Amsterdam. Since legalizing drugs, their crime has increased dramatically. According to officials, it is almost all related to the drug trade.

If the state of Kalifornia thinks revenues are going to increase because they legalized and can now tax cannibis, they are in for a rude surprise. Once legalized, people aren't going to go to a store where the price is higher to cover distrubution and overhead in addition to paying tax. They're going to grow it on their own and the state won't get one extra penny. Like just about everything the state politicians do, it's a pipe dream and won't work.

Exactly, well put. Not to mention that street dealers will always undercut retail. They still do with bootleg DVD and such. The state will see an increase sales tax revenues due to people buying growing supplies but will never be able to equate one to the other. This works for Firearm and firearm accessory purchases as well. Stop criminalizing shooting and start to see tax revenues increase since we would be able to purchase our supplies here rather than paying no tax online (no benefit to anyone when this happens) or driving to nevada to purchase things like ammo at a respectable price. It just seems that politicians see it as being less evil to legalize marijuana rather than support the rights given to us by the Constitution.

[Josh3239]

We have had many threads on this subject. I'll see if I can dig up my olds posts on this. I have sources if necessary.

[Josh3239]

I was trying to find my most recent post on this since it is updated but this is the most recent I could find:

Switzerland has the highest per capita firepower in the world and is one of the most peaceful nations in the world. They avoided both world wars and have considerably lower amount of murders than the gun ban nations of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and England.

99.8% of firearms and more than 99.6% of handguns in the US will not be used to commit violent crimes in any given year.

Washington DC - 1987 banned handgun sales = Early 1990's the murder rate tripled with handguns .

California has added waiting periods, safe handgun lists, assault weapon bans, 1 handgun per month, and handgun registration and has essentially been the most anti-gun state in the union yet our annual murder rates average 32% higher than the rest of the country.

Since Maryland adopted gun purchasing limits, waiting periods, AW restrictions, and regulating transfers between family members their murder rate has shot up and has some of the highest robbery rates in the country.

Federal Gun control Act of 1968 = first five years the national murder rate rose almost 50% higher = the five years after that the national murder rate rose 81%

Criminals create crimes not law abiding gun owners - In 1991 162,000 criminals released on parole committed 46,000 violent crimes. 19% of people involved in the killings of LEOs over the last decade were on probation or parole at the time of the officers killing.

Virginia's Project Exile = sentenced felons convicted of illegally possessing guns receive a minimum of five years in prison. Richmond immediately saw firearm murder rates drop

In the 20th century, apprx 170 million people were killed by their government. Compare this to the fact that in the same 20th century, only 38.5 million people were killed in warfare.

John Lott and David Mustard's conducted a study and their report, The Right-to-Carry Concealed Guns and the Importance of Deterrence found that essentially the more CCW permits, the less the crime. Lott and Mustard also reported that gun accidents didn't increase. Lott wrote, "An additional woman carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for women by about 3 or 4 times more than an additional man carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for men". Lott and Mustard also noted that, "States that have right to carry laws have lower violent crime and homicide rates on average, compared to the rest of the country. RTC states have a 24% lower total violent crime rate, a 19% lower aggravated assault rate, and a 39% lower robbery rate." In their conclusion they wrote, "People who obtain carry permits are by far more law abiding than the rest of the public. In FL, for example, only a fraction of 1% of carry liscenses have been revoked because of gun releated crimes committed by license holders."

Gary Kleck claims that guns are used in defense at least 2.5 million times each year in the US. In his book Kleck wrote, "The best available evidence indicates that guns were used about three to five times for defensive purposes as for criminal purposes."

James Wright and Peter Rossi claim in protective gun uses, only about .1% of criminals are killed and only 1% of criminals are wounded. They claim this isn't because people are missing their targets, but because the sight of a gun is enough to scare the intruder.

Anti-gun researcher David McDowell writes, "Waiting periods have no influence on either gun homicides or gun suicides."

Instant background checks - Instant background checks can immediately nab a criminal attempting to buy a gun. Waiting periods give a criminal more time to walk the streets, meanwhile average Joe who needs a handgun immediately for defense remains defenseless. In an 8 year period Virginia's instant checks nabbed 3,380 criminals, 475 were already wanted.

National Center for Health statistics 1996 accidental deaths per capita =
Motor Vehicles 16.3 per 100,000
Falls 5.6 per 100,000
Poisoning 3.6 per 100,000
Fires 1.4 per 100,000
Drowning 1.3 per 100,000
Choking 1.2 per 100,000
Medical Mistakes 1.1 per 100,000
Gun Accident .4 per 100,000

^above^ Yes that means you have a better chance of having a doctor kill you during surgery or choking on dinner and dying then dying from a gun accident.

Gary Kleck says in 98% of "reported cases, criminals flee the moment they realize their intended victim is armed".

John Lott belives that based on 15 national polls, LA Times, Gallup, and Peter Hart Research Associates guns are used for defensive purposes 760,000-3.6 million times per year.

The Arther Kellerman Study = Kellerman claims that having a gun in your house makes it 44 times more likely for it to be used to a kill a family member. What Kellerman doesn't tell you is that most of the deceased from his research were suicides. Nationwide 58% of firearm related deaths are from suicides. Gun owners accidentally killing family members is at most once for every 90,000 times they are used in self defense.

Gun control supporter Phillip Cook, "Any gun that can be used in self defense has a legitimate purpose and therefore is not useless. Similiarily any gun that can be used in a crime can be used in self defense."

National Institute of Justice = "There is no evidence anywehre to show that reducing the availability of firearms in general likewise reduces the availability to persons with criminal intent or that persons with criminal intent would not be able to arms themselves under any set of general restrictions on firearms."

US DOJ, FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Handbook: "Only a fraction of 1% of firearm owners ever use their gunsi n crimes and only a fraction of 1% of guns are used to commit crimes."

FBI crime statistics: firearm related vilence is less prevalent in many states and cities where firearm ownership is the greatest. Guns deter violence.

US BOJ Report Based on Interviews With 18,000 Inmates: less than 1% of criminals obtain guns from gunshows. National institute of Justice study claimes less than 2% of criminals guns come from gun shows. (That less than 2% were probably stolen)

[WeekendWarrior]

Look up the FBIs annual report on violent crime - It was just released in the last few weeks. We are at a 35 year low for violent crime despite the fact that there are over 80 million new guns in the US since the previous low year.

What do you say to that Anti?!?!?! Rub that report in their face.. Dont like it? Well the police are minutes away sucka! Seconds count!

[Josh3239]

Here are some good vids:

This one deserves first place for the Star Wars music:




And of course this thread cannot be without a brain dead politician:

[PaperPuncher]

Here are some good vids:

This one deserves first place for the Star Wars music:




And of course this thread cannot be without a brain dead politician:

So frustrating. Never has an anti gunner been able to or even asked to come up with factual evidence that supports their legislation but the pro-gunners have all of this factual data refuting any claims made by anti-gunners. Yet we still have this debate. How stupid must these people look before they go burry their heads in the sand.

Reminds me of a story I read in American Rifleman about some anti-gun politician in Ohio. He was anti-gun until he and his family were the victims of a home invasion robbery at which time he changed his stance, bought a gun and came out in public to say that he truly believed the situation would have ended differently and better for him if he had a gun.

I live in bizzaro world.

[WW2Buff]

WOW, THANKS A TON GUYS!

I really appreciate the many responses in such a short time period! I was always happy with the help I have received here but this is just amazing. I might be turning this into a term paper concerning national laws along with California ones. I am looking for hard facts that show flaws in current laws and how poorly the assault weapon ban worked. The first link was amazing and I am going to looking into the NRAs website as well.

-Ben

[Sicarius]

In most cases its the naive people chasing an ideolistic world... They can't think beyond their own happenings. Honestly I don't believe everybody should own a firearm but typically it's the anti-gun individual that doesn't want others to own because they don't trust themselves with one.
Kevin

[fourtyounce48]

This should help.

thanks

[Thrasher416]

I did two speeches for a college class of mine last spring. I think I might still have my PowerPoints and outlines, I'll see if I can find them. I think you have more than enough information already but I can send them to you if think they might help.

I also did a class survey to see what the other students knew about the laws and what they thought should be legal. There were some interesting results I remember. You may want to try that in your classroom too, even if the feeling is overwhelmingly anti-gun. There may be more people on your side than you think.

Good luck dude!

[okimreloaded]

along the lines of getting your door kicked in, did anybody hear about the seal shooting in sac a few weeks ago? Dude gets pissed about a stolen fish, takes a pot shot at a seal - some bleeding heart liberals complain - two days later 8 cops kick in his door. There were photos in the sac bee and on top of that a camera crew for animal planet. What was awesome was seeing cops improperly placing their fingers on the trigger before entering the house in the shots.

Don't those guys know you keep your booger hook off the trigger till your ready to shoot???

AHHHH

Anyway yeah people freak out about some pretty dumb stuff when it comes to guns. Next thing YOU know they're accusing you of being all trench coat mafia or whatever.

oh yeah and granted - you shouldn't shoot seals - but do we really need to waste the man hours and have 8 cops with guns and a battering ram for this?

How about this instead:

1 COP knocks at the door and says to guy

"Hey did you shoot that seal?"

Guy: Uhhh - crap.

Cop:
Here's your 250 dollar ticket douche bag

Guy:SORRY

Copon't do it again or I'll piss in your mouth!