Pro Gun Argument in CA, please help me!

[squatting_caveboy]

Let's not forget the "sport" of shooting - why most of us shoot in the first place. Like any sport there are dangers and pitfalls. Like any sport, there is camaraderie, competition and fun.

[TwitchALot]

"Can anybody here who supports the CA/Federal assault weapons ban tell me what an assault weapon is"?

[cgsomoza]

Here's a proposal I wrote for this topic

I did quite a bit of research and crunched alot of statistics on gun control. I have a powerpoint presentation in ppt. format that I cannot upload....If you need all the research I read, PM me and I will it to you. You will be surprised how many opinions you turn around just by doing this right. I had a flaming liberal come up and thank me for clarifying a lot of issues she had with firearms. She said, "I always associated guns and criminals, now I will not judge someone by that". That was an awesome feeling knowing you educated someone on one of the most important American rights. Good Luck.

[pat4wd]

300,000,000 guns were not used in a crime today.. throw that on at them

[BlackViper]

I did quite a bit of research and crunched alot of statistics on gun control. I have a powerpoint presentation in ppt. format that I cannot upload....If you need all the research I read, PM me and I will it to you. You will be surprised how many opinions you turn around just by doing this right. I had a flaming liberal come up and thank me for clarifying a lot of issues she had with firearms. She said, "I always associated guns and criminals, now I will not judge someone by that". That was an awesome feeling knowing you educated someone on one of the most important American rights. Good Luck.

I don't think your section on unloaded open carry is correct - my understanding is you can have loaded magazines but they must be carried openly as well, as in on the other side of your belt.

[stomper4x4]

You'll find that high schoolers, in their well earned infinite wisdom, have made up their minds about political issues. They have been told what to think and don't have the maturity to question what was force fed to them. (not all, but a good number of them. my 16 year old runs into this all the time)

On that note, I always find this to be good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCHtw6WbbnM

[cgsomoza]

I don't think your section on unloaded open carry is correct - my understanding is you can have loaded magazines but they must be carried openly as well, as in on the other side of your belt.

Your right on this. I misread the law from the .gov website. Yes, you can carry ammunition on your person while open carrying. You cannot have a loaded magazine inserted into the firearm. Thanks for the clarification BlackViper!

[wash]

There has been a large number of OLL's purchased in CA recently and almost zero have been used in violent crime.

The most common "crime" with OLL's is probably violation of the AWB by itself, so if we get rid of the AWB we get rid of the crime.

The only things the AWB did was increase the demand for "evil black rifles" and make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens who had the wrong cosmetic features on their firearm.

[PaperPuncher]

Since a lot of californian's are really big into the environment I always like to mention how it is those of us who shoot guns and buy shooting, camping, and outdoor equipment that are supporting wildlife conservation and our state and national parks. A percentage of every purchase that we make is earmarked for these purposes. Not via taxes either. Do not confuse that point/. Yes, some of the tax we pay also supports these functions however a specific percentage of our purchase (just from the MSRP) goes to support these aspects. Without shooters and outdoorsmen (hunters especially) there are no state parks, national parks, beaches, and hiking trails.

You should probably ask these same people why it is ok to turn to marijuana when the state finances are in trouble. I bet a couple of them are in the crowd that is for it. So we can legalize drug dealing but we can't protect ourselves from all the new drug dealers that will be residing here? Maybe that will put it into perspective but I doubt it.

Best thing you can do is say " well, why don't you join me at the range one day and see for yourself what shooting is about. Until then I can't understand why you would form an opinion of something you know very little or nothing about."

Until then they are only spouting off what they have heard in the media. This is the funny part. How come everybody knows the media is full of BS but when it comes to guns all of a sudden their credibility is second to none? This is why I switched to bottled water. I am just not sure what the hell these guys have coming out of their taps.

[Ezekiel2000]

You should probably ask these same people why it is ok to turn to marijuana when the state finances are in trouble. I bet a couple of them are in the crowd that is for it. So we can legalize drug dealing but we can't protect ourselves from all the new drug dealers that will be residing here? Maybe that will put it into perspective but I doubt it.

This argument is flawed. Allowing legitimate businesses to sell and tax marijuana would not increase the number of street dealers, it would lessen them.

[MonsterMan]

Guns are the best tool for self defense. There is always someone bigger and stronger than someone else. That bigger stronger person can do harm to weaker people if he is not stopped. The firearm in the hands of a 100 pound female is surely going to stop a 200 pound individual if used properly. A firearm in the hands of an average person against the size of an armed someone the same size as him gives him a fighting chance at least to stop the attack rather than having to submit to the armed bad guy. A firearm gives an individual a fighting chance for most situations. No other tool can do that as effectivly. Sure firearms in the hands of bad people can result in terrible acts but how many people are abused, raped, killed, etc because society had made them feel that they dont need to protect themselves because police will be there to protect them. *I wonder how many crimes/attacks/murders would be stopped if people took the initiative to protect themselves compred to all the senseless murders that happen every year because people don't fight back and protect themselves.

Bottom line is even if you had the power to take all firearms away from our country. I mean all of them. We don't have them and the bad guys don't have them. There will always be bigger stronger people that can harm weaker individuals and there will also be gang mentality individuals who can do harm to others just in their sheer numbers. The firearm gives an individual a chance to protect his or her self, family, and property. * **

[PaperPuncher]

This argument is flawed. Allowing legitimate businesses to sell and tax marijuana would not increase the number of street dealers, it would lessen them.

Look, there's one now. Hahaha J/K

The argument is not flawed. What is flawed is turning drug dealing into a legitimate business so people can say well now that it is legal I am not a drug dealer I am a retailer. Especially while taking money out of the hands of legitimate retailers like gun shop owners by enacting countless laws that make no sense and have no impact on crime (drug dealing/using is a crime even if you have a featureless bong). That is flawed.

And if you think legalizing a drug will not cause an increase in crime I would again use that adjective "flawed". Look at it from the flip side. Let's say that it was legal to grow MJ and you decide to do so in your house. Now the neighbors have a high school kid (or a 35 year old paper boy) living with them who is not allowed to grow MJ. You just became a target for crime and wait, you might have your gun taken away and not be able to protect yourself. In some places people kill for weed, make no mistake about that.

Mentioning this was not an attempt to hijack the thread. Just making a point.

[joelberg]

I like the "Which one is an assault rifle?" presentation where there is a picture of two rifles, one a wooden "hunting rifle" that is equipped with a flash hider, the second an EBR with a bullet button. Of course they'll point at the EBR, and you can say "No this is not an assault rifle, the wooden hunting rifle is considered to be one under CA law though". And you have a series of slides that show similar contrast each time.

Maybe that could get them thinking about how the AWB is retarded as nobody can actually figure out what an "Assault Rifle" really is.

Check this out for an example http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...php?p=10908993

[k1dude]

This argument is flawed. Allowing legitimate businesses to sell and tax marijuana would not increase the number of street dealers, it would lessen them.

Tell that to the police in Amsterdam. Since legalizing drugs, their crime has increased dramatically. According to officials, it is almost all related to the drug trade.

If the state of Kalifornia thinks revenues are going to increase because they legalized and can now tax cannibis, they are in for a rude surprise. Once legalized, people aren't going to go to a store where the price is higher to cover distrubution and overhead in addition to paying tax. They're going to grow it on their own and the state won't get one extra penny. Like just about everything the state politicians do, it's a pipe dream and won't work.

[Sicarius]

What's that saying? God made man... Colt made them equal? hehe. Yes and what is an AW anyways... by definition it is suppose to be a full auto weapon... not the militeristic semi autos we have... Somebosy mentioned a socialistic wave coming... but to chime in on that part, In order for a government to have full control, they have to take away any self reliance of the citizen. This way the citizen is dependant on the government. Think healthcare, schooling, protection to name a few... This is a much larger picture than pro vs anti gun... What you are looking into is fundamentals like morals, religion and politics.. You cannot convince somebody that doesn't have an open mind... in the end nobody wins and people's tempers are heated.
Kevin