throwing some feeler about a potential carbine course

[ReconDoc242]

A buddy of mine just started a firearms training company in Texas. He is doing real well out there, but he is looking to expand. I was wondering if there would be a potential market out here in southern california.
So say he puts on a carbine course out here, how many of you would be interested.
The way courses are run are on a ratio of one instructor for every 3to5 students, I believe.
All instructors are special operations veterans(Green Berets/SF, SEALs, and Recon Marines).

[PonchoTA]

Got any info regarding the actual course structure?

What is taught? What do we need to supply? How long? Etc.

.

[ptdog]

Interest, yes. As for actually taking the course, it will depend on a lot of factors, or maybe just do it. I am a novice when it comes to a carbine, so this will at least give me a better understanding of it. Owning it is one thing, but understanding the techniques and use is key ingredient.

[heycorey]

If you can gear your course for people who don't have a registered AR, you'd have a bigger potential client pool (in California). Showing people how to effectively manage a carbine within the constraints of having to use a bullet button would be useful for many. Otherwise you'll have to dance around the BB-issue.

I've got a registered AR, so I'd be interested either way ...

And do you mind identifying the name of the outfit in Texas ... and where they're located? I ask because I go to Texas regularly.

[Full Clip]

Otherwise you'll have to dance around the BB-issue.

No you don't.

I took a carbine class with my MM-gripped AR with no problem. Other folks in the group had Mini-14s and 30s and one even had a KT SU-16CA. All did fine. Only one person in the group had a RAW.

I'd be interested in another class of this sort, geared toward featureless or RAW rifles.

BB rifles are a totally different league and should be contained in their own class if you do one, given the limitations of the release and magazine capacity.

[WokMaster1]

I for one am interested in a beginner class or classes. If your buddy can create progressive classes like Carbine 101, then upwards, it'll be great. I am in the SF Bay area.

[heycorey]

No you don't.

I took a carbine class with my MM-gripped AR with no problem. Other folks in the group had Mini-14s and 30s and one even had a KT SU-16CA. All did fine. Only one person in the group had a RAW.

I'd be interested in another class of this sort, geared toward featureless or RAW rifles.

BB rifles are a totally different league and should be contained in their own class if you do one, given the limitations of the release and magazine capacity.

My comment was geared to the OP, who wants to know what kind of potential there is for a new outfit to develop a business in the California market. I think there's a nice niche for them to jump into (in addition to weapons configured otherwise) ..., since no one else has addressed it.

Since the bullet-button is such a popular item, I'm guessing there is a significant percentage of people who normally keep their AR's configured with a bullet-button. The purpose of training with your weapon is to be familiar with it so that you'll be able to function effectively in a high-stress situation. If you train with your weapon when it is configured differently than you normally maintain it, you won't function effectively in the event you need it for self-defense ... unless your attackers are willing to wait a few moments while you reconfigure your weapon.

I've got a registered AR, so it makes no difference to me. I was simply suggesting a potential customer base for the OP to consider.

[El Gato]

The problems we are having recently with courses is the lack OF and the price OF ammo...
for some this isn't an issue... one guy shot my last defensive handgun course with a makarov cause that is the only gun he had with 300 rounds of ammo...

we have a basic defensive rifle courses on the books but have been unable to offer them due to the lack of availability of ammo...

this is easing so it might be a good time to offer a course -

we work small groups in our courses 10 or less and have no problems filling them usually - issues can be heat here in Kern and timing.

The more courses being offered the merrier we have discovered - there is a synergism thing that starts up, people have a good time and learn about the particular weapon system and then the want to take another course from you or someone else.

I think it is a good idea... go for it...
but you need to teach BB tactics and Monster man tactics and be prepared for the mini 14 - alot of folks have different systems and want to know how to operate them... IMHO don't bad mouth any system.. just point out what seems to work with it and what doesn't and let the customer choose... some people are just never going to be AR 15 people... I'm never going to be a Bullet button guy... so as an Instructor, I get over it and don't let my personal opinion creep in - except when there is something dangerous... like 1.5 lb triggers on defensive glocks etc...

Good Luck and welcome!

[ReconDoc242]

If you can gear your course for people who don't have a registered AR, you'd have a bigger potential client pool (in California). Showing people how to effectively manage a carbine within the constraints of having to use a bullet button would be useful for many. Otherwise you'll have to dance around the BB-issue.

I've got a registered AR, so I'd be interested either way ...

And do you mind identifying the name of the outfit in Texas ... and where they're located? I ask because I go to Texas regularly.

sure brother here is their website in texas. They dont provide any service out here yet.

http://www.etaccgroup.com/

My buddy Gill owns the company. They teach some great courses. Right now they are trying to see what kind of market california can offer. Once again I am not associated with them, I am simply trying to get an idea if there is a market for them out here.

[Greg-Dawg]

Nope, because of having to use the unconventional Monsterman grip and Bullet button.

The laws need to change here.

[ReconDoc242]

The problems we are having recently with courses is the lack OF and the price OF ammo...
for some this isn't an issue... one guy shot my last defensive handgun course with a makarov cause that is the only gun he had with 300 rounds of ammo...

we have a basic defensive rifle courses on the books but have been unable to offer them due to the lack of availability of ammo...

this is easing so it might be a good time to offer a course -

we work small groups in our courses 10 or less and have no problems filling them usually - issues can be heat here in Kern and timing.

The more courses being offered the merrier we have discovered - there is a synergism thing that starts up, people have a good time and learn about the particular weapon system and then the want to take another course from you or someone else.

I think it is a good idea... go for it...
but you need to teach BB tactics and Monster man tactics and be prepared for the mini 14 - alot of folks have different systems and want to know how to operate them... IMHO don't bad mouth any system.. just point out what seems to work with it and what doesn't and let the customer choose... some people are just never going to be AR 15 people... I'm never going to be a Bullet button guy... so as an Instructor, I get over it and don't let my personal opinion creep in - except when there is something dangerous... like 1.5 lb triggers on defensive glocks etc...

Good Luck and welcome!

Thanks for the info brother. I will start putting together a course outline with techniques that are not so heavily dependent on weapon types.

[tango5]

I think it would depend on the instructors and their proven credentials. On their site it says who is in charge of what type or training, but they use call signs or nick names. No real names kind of makes me think that they are hiding something. I know that maybe they used these names in the military, but in the civilian world, real names are more appropriate.
Taken from their site:
Corporate and High Value Target Group - Program Director "Big Earl"

Private Investigations and Background Group - Program Director "Swolt Steve"

Law Enforcement and Training Group - Program Director "AC"

Military and Contracting Group - President/CEO "Gillotine"

[1911su16b870]

I think a carbine course would be an excellent idea for your friend to do out here in CA.

But, IMO until laws in CA change, I would not recommend using a BB OLL in such a course, solely based on the potential loss of fine motor skills during a SHTF life/death fight. Another limit is 10-round mags locked in place in said OLL.

The aforementioned is why I'm a fan of the Ruger mini, SU16, M1A rifles in CA, and more power to you to use your preban high cap mags.

[ReconDoc242]

I think it would depend on the instructors and their proven credentials. On their site it says who is in charge of what type or training, but they use call signs or nick names. No real names kind of makes me think that they are hiding something. I know that maybe they used these names in the military, but in the civilian world, real names are more appropriate.
Taken from their site:
Corporate and High Value Target Group - Program Director "Big Earl"

Private Investigations and Background Group - Program Director "Swolt Steve"

Law Enforcement and Training Group - Program Director "AC"

Military and Contracting Group - President/CEO "Gillotine"

All these guys with the exception of one are still on active duty as green berets....plus with them being texan green berets they are bit out there.

[biglou]

This is a good idea. I would agree with some members here that you would have to train/use the rifle in whatever CA legal congfiguration it is in. If you have a BB then you have to learn to speed load and tac load with it. With proper training, when SHTF on instinct you will grab your BB configured AR and mags and go to work.