Ammoman.com Warning

[Lucky Scott]

I was at the range and the range Officer wanted to test my ammo to see if it was steel or not.
First they did the magnet test and it was magnetic.
Then they cut the bullet in half and showed that it was not steel. (Later they showed me someone elses ammo that they cut and it was steel)

They said the magnet test does not prove anything.
Is there another way to test, other than cutting the bullet in half?

[gemini1]

The photo they show on the website is copper jacketed Wolf, which means that it is not magnetic. However, I received my order of Wolf last night, and it is definitely the bi-metal magnetic jacket.

I guess you'll just have to try all the wolf brand 223 ammos, just because its copper jacketed does not mean it's not magnetic. I think all 223 (or military rifle)ammos are copper jacketed.
I bought a 62 gr copper HP wolf at the Cow palace gun show and its non magnetic. I also bought the 55gr FMJ from AIM and this one is magnetic, both are copper jacketed. I dont know if the box has anything to do with identifying non magnetic bullets, but the 62gr non magnetic was in a box with a yellow/black color while the 55gr FMJ is all black colored box.

[Blue]

http://ammoman.com/webstore_terms_of_use.htm

chargebacks don't allways go you way.

Eh, can still give it a shot. He once raised the prices on everything as my buddy had a bunch of stuff in his shopping cart. When he went to check out, he noticed that all of the prices got bumped up, and held off on the order. He sent Ammoman an email, asking if he'd honor the old price because it was a matter of minutes that the prices got changed. Ammoman replied by putting my buddy on a "ban list". So now his address, name and email are all on some file and ammoman refuses to sell to him.

[Crusader]

What's the problem with it being magnetic? Besides you expecting it to be non-magnetic.

Magnetic ammo sparks. Sparks cause fires. Fires cause dead bush to burn. Bush gets Nancy Pelosi all excited. Pelosi signs gun bans when she gets excited. Gun bans cause Pelosi to get off.

It's a vicious cycle.



The way to tell if Wolf's jacket is magnetic is as simple as looking at it. If it looks like copper, it's bi-metal. If it looks gold, it's copper.

[cassius]

They're probably not going to. There's nothing for them to do about it. No returns on ammo.

Can't imagine why someone would buy ammo on picture alone. Surely the item description describes the product. Or the buyer can / should ask, if it matters to them. Not seeing how this is ammoman's fault, unless it's a deliberate bait-and-switch kind of thing.

eta - hell, the wiki spells it out -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Ammunition

Steel cases
Despite popular misconception, steel-cased ammunition does not increase wear on the chamber or extractor of firearms. This is because the steel used in cartridge cases is mild steel which is very soft in comparison to the type of steel used in firearm components. Also, steel cases are often given a thin coating of lacquer or polymer, so there is no direct steel-to-steel contact with the chamber. The only disadvantage to using steel cases is that steel is not as "elastic" as brass, and therefore does not create as efficient a gas seal when a round is fired.

Steel-jacketed bullets
Not only the cases of Wolf rifle ammo are steel. Most of Wolf's rifle cartridges use steel jacketed bullets, though they look like copper jacketed. The copper exterior of the bullet is only about .005 inch thick, (about twice the thickness of a sheet of paper) with a steel jacket underneath about 1/32 inch thick. Only the cartridges in the yellow and black boxes have real copper jackets. The core of the steel jacketeted bullets, sometimes marked "bimetal", are lead. Some rifle ranges have started magnet testing shooter's ammunition to determine if bullets are steel jacketed. The steel is said to be more likely to ricochet, and also to cause sparks on impact, which can be a problem when shooting in dry grassland, or forest areas. In addition, a large majority of pistol ranges will not allow shooters to use Wolf, or other Russian ammunition types because of the steel jacket components on many of their products. The reason cited for this is because they claim it damages the backstops.

[Q]

If anyone finds non-magnetic bullets 223 or 762x39(steel casing); let me know I need to buy some..

[cassius]

I was at the range and the range Officer wanted to test my ammo to see if it was steel or not.
First they did the magnet test and it was magnetic.
Then they cut the bullet in half and showed that it was not steel. (Later they showed me someone elses ammo that they cut and it was steel)

They said the magnet test does not prove anything.
Is there another way to test, other than cutting the bullet in half?

They didn't know what they were doing, but they put on a nice show.
You put the magnet on the projectile, not on the cartridge casing. CommBloc ammo manfs (which became Wolf's earliest factories) used mild steel in both the projectiles and the cartridge casings. The bullet jacket itself is often copper-washed mild steel. Then the 'lead' core is steel too.
Too many officious idiots running around with a magnet thinking a magnetic cartridge casing is a no go. Then again, too many greedy range operators ban steel cartridge casings TOO, because they are too lazy or cheap to want to sort it out of the brass gleanings. They're usually the same turds that demand YOUR casing remain where they lay.

[Crusader]

They're probably not going to. There's nothing for them to do about it. No returns on ammo.

Can't imagine why someone would buy ammo on picture alone. Surely the item description describes the product. Or the buyer can / should ask, if it matters to them. Not seeing how this is ammoman's fault, unless it's a deliberate bait-and-switch kind of thing.

Hmm, that's a really interesting point of view. So even though the item description did not say "bi-metal jacket" and they showed a picture of a box of ammo with a copper jacket, I should still assume that the ammo is bi-metal?

Very interesting indeed.

I only posted this thread to warn potential buyers that even though the description of the ammo shows copper-jacketed ammunition, it is in fact bi-metal. Thus, many ranges here in CA won't allow you to shoot it.

[cassius]

Heck ammoman even has a return policy that the OP seems to have failed to avail himself of -

ORDER RETURNS:

YOU MUST CALL FOR A RETURN AUTHORIZATION NUMBER
THIS NUMBER MUST BE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BOX

We will guarantee any ammo or magazine we sell for 15 DAYS from the date of the order.

We will offer a 100% money back, exchange or refund of that item.

We will not charge a restocking fee or deduct the original shipping it cost us to send it to you.

WE WILL NOT PAY FOR ANY RETURN SHIPPING TO CLAIM YOUR REFUND

WE WILL NOT ISSUE A "CALL TAG" FOR UPS TO PICK-UP THE ITEM
( WE SHIP ONE WAY AND ONE WAY ONLY )

We do not make it and we do not inspect each and every one of thousands of cans and cases we ship.
We will however, still guarantee the items.

This is one of the best guarantees in the industry but we will only pay shipping one way

ANY REFUSED ORDER WILL BE CHARGED $40 PER PACKAGE UPON RETURN

I suggest the OP instead of running here to badmouth the vendor should instead take more caution in his ordering, and in actually trying ot resolve the situation with the vendor, first, before coming here to do harm to the cashflow of the business in question.


eta - Disclaimer - I have absolutely nothing to do with Ammoman.

[!@#$]

Eh, can still give it a shot. He once raised the prices on everything as my buddy had a bunch of stuff in his shopping cart. When he went to check out, he noticed that all of the prices got bumped up, and held off on the order. He sent Ammoman an email, asking if he'd honor the old price because it was a matter of minutes that the prices got changed. Ammoman replied by putting my buddy on a "ban list". So now his address, name and email are all on some file and ammoman refuses to sell to him.

yes the chargeback is your only chance if something goes wrong on an ammoman deal.

it's best just to never order from ammoman in the first place.

even with the "free" shipping i have never found his prices to be great.

[cassius]

Hmm, that's a really interesting point of view. So even though the item description did not say "bi-metal jacket" and they showed a picture of a box of ammo with a copper jacket, I should still assume that the ammo is bi-metal?

Very interesting indeed.

I only posted this thread to warn potential buyers that even though the description of the ammo shows copper-jacketed ammunition, it is in fact bi-metal. Thus, many ranges here in CA won't allow you to shoot it.

That's not a 'point of view' - it's a point of your ignorance about what you were buying.
Even the stuff that LOOKS copper-jacketed can actually be mild steel. Anyone that knows the history of Wolf ammo knows this. You went on nothing but a picture, the failure was YOURS, but you're here anyway intimating that some fraud took place.

[cassius]

And the people talking chargebacks should STFU. The OP's attempt at a chargeback would FAIL, because he got exactly what he ordered, which ammoman will demonstrate with his order information.


I ask the OP plainly (and having not read the middle of the thred yet) - has he actually phoned Ammoman to tell them he ordered the wrong thing and would like to return / exchange what he bought?

[Crusader]

Yes. I sent an e-mail this morning, then decided to call to see if I could get immediate help. I phoned 4 times over the span of two hours. Each time, I got a message saying that they were unavailable. I then sent another e-mail about 2 hours ago following up.

Before you come here and attack me, do some research. All I posted was a notification to other potential buyers that the ammunition they are advertising is not copper jacketed, as their website describes. It is instead bi-metal.
I don't recall ever once saying "Don't ever shop at Ammoman.com, they are not worth doing business with". I said "This ammunition is not copper jacketed, as they describe. It is instead bi-metal."

To imply the failure was mine is complete bull****. If their website says verbatim:
223 RUSSIAN 55 GRAIN FMJ
BRAND NEW - WOLF MANUFACTURE
FULL METAL JACKET
NEW POLYMER COATING
(http://ammoman.com/index.htm)

And then shows this picture:

http://ammoman.com/images/WOLF/223%20FMJ%2055GR.jpg

*note* the box says Copper FMJ. The boxes I received DO NOT


...Then how the hell can the fault be mine? The website never once says "bi-metal" or "magnetic" or "not copper".
It instead shows a picture saying "copper FMJ".

[cassius]

THIS is the stuff the OP should have ordered, if magnet-checking for shooting outdoors was a concern.




And the OP ought to change the name of this topic, before he does any more (un)intentional harm to Ammoman's business.

[ke6guj]

They're probably not going to. There's nothing for them to do about it. No returns on ammo.

Can't imagine why someone would buy ammo on picture alone. Surely the item description describes the product. Or the buyer can / should ask, if it matters to them. Not seeing how this is ammoman's fault, unless it's a deliberate bait-and-switch kind of thing.

eta - hell, the wiki spells it out -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Ammunition

Well, since Wolf sells both "full copper" and bi-metallic projectiled ammo, I would think that seeing a picture of the actual iterm being sold should be fine. The OP saw the "copper ammo" boxed ammo in the pic, but was shipped ammo that was not marked "copper".

Heck ammoman even has a return policy that the OP seems to have failed to avail himself of -


I suggest the OP instead of running here to badmouth the vendor should instead take more caution in his ordering, and in actually trying ot resolve the situation with the vendor, first, before coming here to do harm to the cashflow of the business in question.


eta - Disclaimer - I have absolutely nothing to do with Ammoman.

The OP did try to contact the vendor via phone and email, to no avail.

Did the OP say to not buy from vendor, NO, just to be aware that the ammo you think you are getting may not be what you actually get.

That's not a 'point of view' - it's a point of your ignorance about what you were buying.
Even the stuff that LOOKS copper-jacketed can actually be mild steel. Anyone that knows the history of Wolf ammo knows this. You went on nothing but a picture, the failure was YOURS, but you're here anyway intimating that some fraud took place.

Right, but when the pic is supposed to represenative of what you are buying, and you get something that doesn't look like the pic, then who's failure is it?

I ask the OP plainly (and having not read the middle of the thred yet) - has he actually phoned Ammoman to tell them he ordered the wrong thing and would like to return / exchange what he bought?

Yes, he called and emailed, per the OP.