CA DROS Delay

[The Gleam]

I pickup my firearm this coming Saturday from RifleGear. Clean record, nothing in my past or present, not even a unpaid parking ticket. I'll chime in after.

I talked to one of the salesmen there about delays. His take is there where many delays a few months ago due to increased gun sales and the lack of government staffing. Common last names seem to be delayed because they need to see which "John Smith" is DROSing. He made it sound like many buyers just had a few extra days delayed but not like something extreme that some people here have gone through. He even had a delay but said at presently it seems to have gotten better now.

Any unexplained delay after the 10-Day wait is unacceptable - (even though the 10-day wait itself is unacceptable).

----

[lakersfan]

I bought a RIA 1911 on April 7 no issues and bought a Glock 19 on May 19 no issues so far. One more week hopefully nothing happens

[iMigraine]

I pickup my firearm this coming Saturday from RifleGear. Clean record, nothing in my past or present, not even a unpaid parking ticket. I'll chime in after.

I talked to one of the salesmen there about delays. His take is there where many delays a few months ago due to increased gun sales and the lack of government staffing. Common last names seem to be delayed because they need to see which "John Smith" is DROSing. He made it sound like many buyers just had a few extra days delayed but not like something extreme that some people here have gone through. He even had a delay but said at presently it seems to have gotten better now.

[RAMCLAP]

Bought a pistol on 5/9. I went out of town and picked it up on 5/21. No issues. My second in 2 months. I never have issues.

[ar15barrels]

I have mostly been buying C&R guns and I don't have to wait for DROS as the C&R guns all get released to me immediatly.
I don't actually know if any of them have been delayed as my FFL closes out the DROS and delivers the guns to me moments after I start the DROS.

[smokycuh]

[ejhc11]

My new Ruger Wrangler from May 8 is also on unexplained DROS delay, dealer says I need to come back in 30 days. Just did a PPT hopefully that goes thru.

[pacrat]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.

Matt, if speaking of >DENIALS< I would agree with your post. But this issue is about DELAYS, and the rapid increase of same. Same as when the Covid hit. At that time there was a rapid increase in DROS applications. And DOJ dealt with it by simply "delaying" rather than doing due diligence and actually dealing with the issue.

DROS was supposed to be self supporting. And it was more than so. Well known fact that DOJ syphoned off millions of $ to support APPS. Another dismal DOJ failure. Rather than hire enough support staff to actually handle DROS.

They admit to being unable to handle the rapid DROS increases because of there own malfeasances.

Which if you peruse CalGuns, "General" and "Ca Law Affect Me" forums. You will find the obvious chain reaction of exponential increase in "UNDETERMINED" status findings caused by these "delays" during DROS.

Which leads even more legal firearms purchases being denied by unscrupulous FFLs that refuse to "Release on Undetermined Status" after the 30 day delay codified in pc28220[4]. Directly connected to the intentionally inaccurate info contained on the DOJ FAQ website regarding 28220[4]. Which falsely claims discretion deferred to FFLs.

^^^SEE EDIT BELOW^^^ in relation to underlined.

I don't wear a tinfoil hat. But you don't need one to see a direct correlation between all these planned encumbrances to legal ownership of firearms in Ca. All of which originate at DOJ.

I became a CRPA Life Member shortly after Chuck took the helm. After dropping out back in the day when CRPA was ineffectual. Also NRA member since 1973, and a NRA Lifer since 1979.

ETA What is NOW on DOJ FAQ page in relation to "undetermined"

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms

Obviously Bonta has chosen to remove what for the last 8 years I have been calling "KAMALA'S BIG LIE". Which was an additional sentence bestowing unwarranted "discretion" on FFLs as to delivering on undetermined. Here is a quote from DOJ FAQ archived here on CG from the time of Harris and Basura.

Undetermined

The LIE is the bolded sentence, which has been recently removed by Bonta.

[Brian93436]

Just to be clear, I purchased 4 firearms between Dec 2021 and April 2022 (Turner's in SM). No delays, no issues.

The Glock I DROS'd in April was my first "delay", and then the status went "undetermined" a week or so ago (Turner's in SM). I had never heard of DROS "delay" or "undetermined" before this.

The Ruger M77 (PPT) DROS status went "delayed" last week and I am anticipating another "undetermined" based upon other's experiences stated on this forum (Turner's Tulare).

I have not had ANY changes in my eligibility, NO Tickets, NO Restraining Orders, NO fights, not even so much as a glance by LE or a Judge. So this is definitely a CA DOJ phenomena/nefarious tactic.

I've read people state "we" should only buy from FFLs that release on "undetermined", but that is not a reasonable approach for most (have only seen ONE FFL's name suggested in a far away community), and besides it only crutches the underlying issue. What I believe needs to happen is the CA DOJ needs to do their job. I am hoping CRPA, NRA or another brother in arms group file a class action that stops this frustrating CA DOJ delaying tactic.

P.S. I have not received ANY CA DOJ form letter explaining the delay for either purchase.

[smokycuh]

But that is not what is going on here.

I greatly appreciate your taking the time to join this conversation, but really look over what is actually being conveyed here, and in more than a dozen areas peppered throughout Calguns, sharing even more anecdotes by dozens of seprate others within each.

If you read any part of this thread, or any of the dozens of sudden reports by people without any background issues and as also being advised by dealers, that the surge in undetermined and delays has jumped 10-fold or more in numbers, you'll see it's not the same scenario as you are suggestion from your association with client matters.

The increased frequency arising over delays and 'undetermined' status on various existing gun owners' DROS processes, where in many cases they have an active DROS that is NOT delayed or 'undetermined' from another FFL at the same time, is way out of limits of likelihood to these people being the example you are citing.

The sudden increase in delays and 'undetermined' are skyrocketing and the DOJ is candidly stating it's due to their system inefficiency, shortage of staff, new guidelines, and other dismissive fodder - a gamut of issues, not directly the cause or trait of the buyer, that should never be any reason to delay someone's right or be ambiguous about that right (i.e., this nonsensical 'undetermined' label).

I understand your point on delays where someone needs legal help because THEY are the issue, but that is WHY you're only hearing from THOSE people!

You're not hearing about these unfounded and unwarranted delays and 'undetermined' infringements because the people to whom this is happening do not have any prohibiting or legal trapping for an attorney to address or need for the same. There is nothing about them to work on.

And THAT is why a 2nd Amendment rights organization needs to look into this.

These are cut-and-dry civil rights violations by the DOJ solely because the amount of work, or the time they self-prescribed to an issue that didn't need obstruction in the first place, is inconveniencing them. So they log a delay, an undetermined - "Sorry, we just can't fit you and your misersble 2nd Amendment rights in right now."

As a member of the NRA since 1978 without fail, and a member of the CRPA since coming to CA in 1990, it's absolutely crucial this issue not go ignored and discounted, or misinterpreted as something else, the cause for delays being business as usual because of the buyers.

Much more is at work here - or should I say, NOT at work?

The problem-cases you have only heard about as clients that come to you to fix their personal issue is a separate track entirely.

In the 20+ years of Calguns, there has never been this recent level of delays/undetermined DOJ games being reported from buyers that have recently DROSed numerous guns in the past several months without such asinine infringement being donned on them.

Something is amiss, maybe even intentional.

----

I agree 100% with this statement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Gleam]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.

But that is not what is going on here.

I greatly appreciate your taking the time to join this conversation, but really look over what is actually being conveyed here, and in more than a dozen areas peppered throughout Calguns, sharing even more anecdotes by dozens of separate others within each.

If you read any part of this thread, or any of the dozens of sudden reports by people without any background issues, and as also being advised by dealers, that the surge in undetermined and delays has jumped 10-fold or more in numbers, you'll see it's not the same scenario as you are suggesting seen from your association with client matters.

The increased frequency arising over delays and 'undetermined' status on various existing gun owners' DROS processes, where in many cases they have an active DROS that is NOT delayed or 'undetermined' from another FFL at the same time, is way out of limits of likelihood to these people being the example you are citing.

The sudden increase in delays and 'undetermined' are skyrocketing and the DOJ is candidly stating it's due to their system inefficiency, shortage of staff, new guidelines, and other dismissive fodder - a gamut of issues, not directly the cause or trait of the buyer, that should never be any reason to delay someone's right or be ambiguous about that right (i.e., this nonsensical 'undetermined' label).

I understand your point on delays where someone needs legal help because THEY are the issue, but that is WHY you're only hearing from THOSE people!

You're not hearing about these unfounded and unwarranted delays and 'undetermined' infringements because the people to whom this is happening do not have any prohibiting or legal trapping for an attorney to address or need for the same. There is nothing about them to work on.

And THAT is why a 2nd Amendment rights organization needs to look into this.

These are cut-and-dry civil rights violations by the DOJ solely because the amount of work, or the time they self-prescribed to an issue that didn't need obstruction in the first place, is inconveniencing them. So they log a delay, an undetermined - "Sorry, we just can't fit you and your miserable 2nd Amendment rights in right now."

As a member of the NRA since 1978 without fail, and a member of the CRPA since coming to CA in 1990, it's absolutely crucial this issue not go ignored and discounted, or misinterpreted as something else, the cause for delays being business as usual because of the buyers.

Much more is at work here - or should I say, NOT at work?

The problem-cases you have only heard about as clients that come to you to fix their personal issue is a separate track entirely.

In the 20+ years of Calguns, there has never been this recent level of delays/undetermined DOJ games being reported from buyers that have recently DROSed numerous guns in the past several months without such asinine infringement being donned on them.

Something is amiss, maybe even intentional.

----

[smokycuh]

^^^
The only problem I see/read is that some FFL say to just DROS again and it will most likely be approved.

If this is the case than why?
CADOJ takes 40 days to figure out you are not prohibited?
I thought newer faster computers/internet was going to speed things up.
I really think they just check what they can within the first 10 days.
If they have some going on 11 days the delay button is pushed.
If time permits they go back and actually run a background check.
If time does not permit then 30 days it becomes undetermined.

The real fix is to force CADOJ to send out a letter.
What they found that caused the delay.
Not that stupid form letter that everyone gets.

We have no idea what can trigger a delay.
If the CADOJ "New Guidelines" than why not publish them?

[emoji817][emoji817][emoji817][emoji817][emoji817]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[foothillman]

^^^
The only problem I see/read is that some FFL say to just DROS again and it will most likely be approved.

If this is the case than why?
CADOJ takes 40 days to figure out you are not prohibited?
I thought newer faster computers/internet was going to speed things up.
I really think they just check what they can within the first 10 days.
If they have some going on 11 days the delay button is pushed.
If time permits they go back and actually run a background check.
If time does not permit then 30 days it becomes undetermined.

The real fix is to force CADOJ to send out a letter.
What they found that caused the delay.
Not that stupid form letter that everyone gets.

We have no idea what can trigger a delay.
If the CADOJ "New Guidelines" than why not publish them?

[smokycuh]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.

Thank you i greatly appreciate this!
I believe this will help our gun community


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MCubeiro]

In general, everytime I see someone get delayed its due to an arrest or other contact with law enforcement that is reflected on the person's RAP sheet but also lacks any disposition. Meaning there is no subsequent entry to state what happened as a result of that contact. I have yet to come across someone who is truly prohibited, however.

We offer free consultations for individuals who get a delay status which includes me reviewing their entire RAP to see what the problem is and what options there are to correct it. But I cannot help without actually seeing the person's RAP. And in cases where the issue is an out of state contact I would also need to see the person's federal RAP sheet. Both are what DOJ looks at when running background checks in addition to other databases.

You can contact our office at helpdesk@michellawyers.com for info on how to obtain your RAP sheets.

Bottom line, people placed on delay that want to get the issue fixed need to contact an attorney directly to see what the problem may be and how to fix it. And did I mention we generally do that for free? Thats thanks in large part to CRPA.