CA DROS Delay

[pacrat]

Just wondering if there were any actual cases where FFLs were sued for releasing a firearm on undetermined status that was later used in a crime?

EXACTLY NONE, that were ever found on any of the searchable court data bases. Or any published news outlets. Re "undetermined release".

There have been cases filed nationally naming FFLs as complacent in the crimes of third parties. All of which went EXACTLY NoWHERE. Because of the aforementioned PLCAA protections in place.

IMHO, all those were filed by GREEDY RELATIVES HOPING FOR DEEP POCKET PAYOUTS. To cash in on a family tragedy.

[Deelayed]

Highly unlikely, because it's legal to release on undetermined and it does not create an affront to any party involved, whether that's the dealer, the DOJ, or the buyer.

Releasing on undetermined in these erroneous DOJ 'delay/undetetmined' out of default instigated by their laziness or simply dismissiveness - benefits all involved.

It does NOT put liability on the dealer as the FUD engine is trying to imply, it takes an unfinished work-order off the desk of whomever at the DOJ never felt compelled to 'getting around to it' for manual review within 30-days in the first place, and the buyer who is NOT considered a prohibited person NOR IS UNDETERMINED A DENIAL gets his gun and his civil rights are not violated.

The DOJ doesn't care in that regard, where legal provesses are followed - even if Bonta's office is clearly showing animosity toward gun owners and gun dealers.

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Ok .Point taken .I guess with the new SCOTUS ruling we should expect even more and possibly longer delays .

[The Gleam]

I would think that if a list of all the shops that released on undetermined posted that would be giving the powers that be a list of all the shops that can be harassed and potentially put out of business. I also wonder if they have a way to figure out through sales if a shop releases on undetermined because they have a pre determined rate of a delay responses therefore being able to single out and harass certain shops. Which can be done with computers.. so it really takes no brain activity from the ones in question .

Highly unlikely, because it's legal to release on undetermined and it does not create an affront to any party involved, whether that's the dealer, the DOJ, or the buyer.

Releasing on undetermined in these erroneous DOJ 'delay/undetetmined' out of default instigated by their laziness or simply dismissiveness - benefits all involved.

It does NOT put liability on the dealer as the FUD engine is trying to imply, it takes an unfinished work-order off the desk of whomever at the DOJ never felt compelled to 'getting around to it' for manual review within 30-days in the first place, and the buyer who is NOT considered a prohibited person NOR IS UNDETERMINED A DENIAL gets his gun and his civil rights are not violated.

The DOJ doesn't care in that regard, where legal processes are followed - even if Bonta's office is clearly showing animosity toward gun owners and gun dealers.

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[Deelayed]

I would think that if a list of all the shops that released on undetermined posted that would be giving the powers that be a list of all the shops that can be harassed and potentially put out of business. I also wonder if they have a way to figure out through sales if a shop releases on undetermined because they have a pre determined rate of a delay responses therefore being able to single out and harass certain shops. Which can be done with computers.. so it really takes no brain activity from the ones in question .

[LMan57]

I wonder if all the delays are for handguns or long guns, I was called on day 6 that it has been delayed. I purchased a rifle and a pistol last year and have purchased many over the years without any issues.

[tsmithson]

[Creative300]

Hence her BIG LIE. She changed the DOJ-FAQ page by adding the same last phrase as is on your letter. Inferring a NON EXISTANT "discretion" on FFLs.

Which just as planned, created a crap storm of idiot FFLs lacking the language skills to actually read the law. So they believed her.

Because her DOJ peeps in the field were also giving false implications to FFLs. That if they released on undetermined. And the buyer later committed a crime with the gun. That the FFL "could possibly" be sued and found liable for the crime in civil court.

Which is another duplicitous LIE. FFL dealers are covered by the PLCAA.

Just wondering if there were any actual cases where FFLs were sued for releasing a firearm on undetermined status that was later used in a crime?

[Creative300]

Thank you for the info. From now on I will be sure to find out in advance if the FFL will release on undetermined after 30 days. Even if they dont have the gun I want, I could always do a transfer to that FLL. Problem solved. Waiting up to 30 days is better than waiting potentially many months or years.

Have called about half a dozen reputable FFL's so far in LA and OC area to ask if they would release: half of them said they will and half won't. The good news is finding one that will release after 30 days isn't hard.

[pacrat]

No problem glad to help.

Not familiar with the Kamala thing you're referring to, but I wouldn't trust her farther than I could throw her.

We should start a list of FFLs that will release on undetermined. Even if your primary FFL won't release, you could have your firearm shipped to one that will.

Bolded ..... Back in 1991 when DROS was required for all transfers of firearms in CrapOfornica. There WAS NO UNDETERMINED status in the law. Ca pc-28220.

After 23 yrs of abuse of the delay status after the mandated 10 day wait. During which DOJ can and did, often place a transfer on "DELAY". Sometimes for years.

During which time the BUYER could not take possession. Of his already bought and paid for firearm. And the FFL could not sell the gun to anyone else. Because the DROS was PENDING.

That was "SUPPOSEDLY RESOLVED" on Jan 1, 2014 when pc-28220[F] was codified. Making the MAXIMUM delay, NO LONGER THAN 30 DAYS.

In reality according to the LAW AS WRITTEN. An undetermined status after 30 days. Is exactly the same as DROS release after 10 day wait.

Because that is how the statutes for both are written. Kamaltoe didn't like losing the ability to screw citizens out of their guns. But there was nothing she could directly do to stop it.

Hence her BIG LIE. She changed the DOJ-FAQ page by adding the same last phrase as is on your letter. Inferring a NON EXISTANT "discretion" on FFLs.

Which just as planned, created a crap storm of idiot FFLs lacking the language skills to actually read the law. So they believed her.
Because her DOJ peeps in the field were also giving false implications to FFLs. That if they released on undetermined. And the buyer later committed a crime with the gun. That the FFL "could possibly" be sued and found liable for the crime in civil court.

Which is another duplicitous LIE. FFL dealers are covered by the PLCAA.

Relevant codes are pc-28220[A], 1991 <release after 10 days. And pc-28220[4], 2014 <release after 30 days. BOTH OF WHICH ARE SAME WORDING.

[LMan57]

Well, I just got a call that the DOJ. has not approved the background paperwork on a Walther .22 this is crazy.

[Creative300]

Thank You, that confirms what I suspected. They removed "Kamalas BIG LIE", from the DOJ website.

But are still promoting it in the "delayed" form letter.

No problem glad to help.

Not familiar with the Kamala thing you're referring to, but I wouldn't trust her farther than I could throw her.

We should start a list of FFLs that will release on undetermined. Even if your primary FFL won't release, you could have your firearm shipped to one that will.

[ProfChaos]

That's what it says word for word in the letter I recently received in the mail from DOJ. The letter is dated June 12, 2022. Same form letter everyone else gets.

I love how the letter is generic and full of grammatical errors. That alone should be used against DOJ in any suit filed.

[pacrat]

That's what it says word for word in the letter I recently received in the mail from DOJ. The letter is dated June 12, 2022. Same form letter everyone else gets.

Thank You, that confirms what I suspected. They removed "Kamalas BIG LIE", from the DOJ website.

But are still promoting it in the "delayed" form letter.

[Creative300]

First off "Welcome to CG".

Now a question for you. Where did that last paragraph in you above post come from?

Can you post a link please?

"Undetermined Refusal for Release" has always been one of my HOT BUTTON issues. Ever since Jan 1, 2014 when pc 28220 [F] was codified.

The Ca-DOJ FAQ page on their web site "USED TO SAY THAT". Which was a BLATANT LIE put there by Kamala Harris as soon as Undetermined became law.

Several months ago, that last line was QUIETLY REMOVED from the DOJ FAQ.

NO FFL has EVER had any discretionary choice whether to release or not. That's the law as written.

That's what it says word for word in the letter I recently received in the mail from DOJ. The letter is dated June 12, 2022. Same form letter everyone else gets.

[pacrat]

but the shop can legally release the firearm after 30 days when it has gone to undetermined status.

if the shop refuses to do so that is on them. there is no legal reason for them
not to release it unless its because they find it more profitable to make
money on hundreds of dollars of restocking fees every time that very same
firearm goes to undetermined status with other customers. to me that is called a scam.

"Regardless, the Department is required to make its determination within
30 calendar days. If the Department is unable to make a determination in
this time, the dealer will be notified and may deliver the firearm(s) to you at
hi/her discretion -- ROB BONTA, Attorney General"

First off "Welcome to CG".

Now a question for you. Where did that last paragraph in you above post come from?

Can you post a link please?

"Undetermined Refusal for Release" has always been one of my HOT BUTTON issues. Ever since Jan 1, 2014 when pc 28220 [F] was codified.

The Ca-DOJ FAQ page on their web site "USED TO SAY THAT". Which was a BLATANT LIE put there by Kamala Harris as soon as Undetermined became law.

Several months ago, that last line was QUIETLY REMOVED from the DOJ FAQ.

NO FFL has EVER had any discretionary choice whether to release or not. That's the law as written.