Carry at Work

[Epaphroditus]

Insurance that coerces loss of natural rights is an abomination. Same as mandated injections. There is no hierarchy of rights - they all count the same and carry the same weight.

"Their house their rules" also abomination - no coloreds at the lunch counter for example.

[beerman]

This thread is made me think back to April’92… LA riots. There was a pistol in almost every tool box. It was like wandering around a gun show. I needed to send my driver to McDonnell Douglas in LB to deliver a part needed for an AOG. My driver wouldn’t go. A hailed one of my machinist to go ride shotgun with the driver. He said only if he could bring protection. I said I expected it. He went to his truck and retrieved his 18” 870 shotgun and his 92 Beretta from the toolbox. I told both , when they return, go home and I’ll pay them for the day.. with their usual OT. They told me the guards there were shocked there was a delivery that day. How times have changed.

[Quiet]

This thread is made me think back to April’92… LA riots. There was a pistol in almost every tool box. It was like wandering around a gun show. I needed to send my driver to McDonnell Douglas in LB to deliver a part needed for an AOG. My driver wouldn’t go. A hailed one of my machinist to go ride shotgun with the driver. He said only if he could bring protection. I said I expected it. He went to his truck and retrieved his 18” 870 shotgun and his 92 Beretta from the toolbox. I told both , when they return, go home and I’ll pay them for the day.. with their usual OT. They told me the guards there were shocked there was a delivery that day. How times have changed.

CA laws have changed since then.
Some of things that were allowed during 1992, were made illegal, starting in 2011.

[johnparjr]

I carry everyday at work but I work from home 😜

[Rcjackrabbit]

[Brother_Hesekiel]

I'm the boss and I carry every day to work and at work. I disarm myself if I have to do physical work where my gun would be "in the way." At the same time I take off my expensive watch.
I don't ask my employees if they carry, and I don't have a problem with anyone carrying legally on my premises. If I can't trust a CCW holder to carry a gun around me, I would have to question my own reasoning and position about guns and self-defense in general.

[Chevy2Nova]

Hard NO for me at work unfortunately.

[duckman1]

I am a business owner and carry. I have an employee with CCW that I gave written permission too. As many stated above not all employees would be granted the permission.

[jeremiah12]

SharedShots brings up a valid point. Any corporation or business owner that gives implicit or direct consent for an employee with a CCW to carry on the job is opening themselves up to major liability issues. If that employee ever uses the gun, even if was in a legal self-defense situation, the corporation or business owner can still expect to be named as a defendant in a lawsuit. You gave the permission so you will take on the liability for your employee's actions resulting in using the gun. If the company is find partially liable and the employee is found to be most liable for what happened but is unable to pay his portion of the settlement, the company will have to pay off the rest of his part; CA is a deep pockets state. That is why everyone that might have even the slightest chance of being liable will be included in the suit.

Look closely at the insurance policy for your business. Many exclude coverage for employees who were given permission to carry guns at work unless it was part of their job descriptions. Cal-OSHA will come down hard on a business for sending employees into harms way, like making a delivery to an area that you know a riot may be happening at as someone mentioned earlier. Sending the employees with guns for protection and then something happening to them will bring Cal-OSHA down on you and the fines and red tape will shut you down.

My BIL was working as a tow truck driver and was murdered on a call. This was the start of a murder spree and when the killer was caught, it turned out to be a co-worker that had been suspended for 30 days for a drug violation. The tow company was shut down for 90 days because they did not follow protocol and this was the third failed drug test and the person should have been suspended the first time and the third time fired and reported to the state so he would no longer be eligible to work as a tow truck driver. The company almost lost their permit to operate in the state and had to pay some hefty fines.

His parents filed suit against the company stating had he been allowed to carry a gun in his truck, he might not had been murdered. The suit was tossed because the judge ruled that under CA law, employees do not have a right to carry on the premises of an employer, that is private property. The 2A only covers public property. His parents appealed and still lost.

It is a catch 22. From the perspective of the employee, I get it. The majority of us here understand that gun free zones are victim rich environments because those that intend to do harm do not follow the rules.

So we have to make the hard choices. On the one hand, work place shootings are rare. The majority of us will work a lifetime and never experience one or know a person that experienced one.

A few people who work in bad areas or high risk jobs are the exception. I experienced 3 shooting incidents on campus in my teaching career. They all happened in the one year I taught at a middle school in a neighborhood filled with gangs and drug dealers. All three were drug deals gone bad and the gun fight started in the housing project next to the school and the shooters jumped the fence and continued the fight as they ran through the school from one end to the other to the main road. We were fortunate that no students were ever injured. The district got smart and installed an 18 foot fence between the school and the housing project and that put an end to it. After that, the gun battles went away from the school.

Even if I were armed, there was nothing I could do because many of the ghetto kids saw this as entertainment and ran towards the sound of gunfire to see what all the drama was about rather than run to the classrooms with the lockdown alarm ringing. So even the one time a police officer was on campus, he did not even have a clear shot and had to wait until the perps were off campus.

We all have read the news stories of employees who have carried on the job and used their gun to stop a robbery or worse and then get fired for violating the no guns at work policy. That is a trade-off most of us are willing to make, staying alive to work another day. Most have job offers pouring in anyway so it is no big deal.

If you chose to carry at work, follow the rule of concealed means concealed and tell no one, not even your best friend. Be the gray man. Accept that if you do and are discovered, you will likely lose your job.

If you do get permission, get it in writing. Verbal permission or just a nod and an implicit yeah, it is not allowed but it will be overlooked gives you no protection down the road when you get a new supervisor or when you upset someone and this becomes the perfect excuse to use against you.

[axel4488]

Concealed is concealed. don't ask, don't tell. In the end of it, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[Librarian]

Concealed is concealed. don't ask, don't tell. In the end of it, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Except, of course, one can be fired for carrying in violation of company policy.

[pohorsky]

The guy that taught a local ccw class said when he picked up his kids at school he carried. Only way anyone would know is if he had to use it. I guess it's a question of risk vs reward.

[mshill]

I worked for HP in Roseville from Sept 2011 through October 2020. Strict no gun policy (discplined up to and including termination)and no guns on company property (eg. Parking lot). After I got my CCW in 2015 I carried everyday to work and a majority in the building (depending on what I was wearing). To this day only two people (very close, longtime friends) knew I had a CCW and no one knew I carried.

[SharedShots]

I worked for HP in Roseville from Sept 2011 through October 2020. Strict no gun policy (discplined up to and including termination)and no guns on company property (eg. Parking lot). After I got my CCW in 2015 I carried everyday to work and a majority in the building (depending on what I was wearing). To this day only two people (very close, longtime friends) knew I had a CCW and no one knew I carried.

Now everyone knows.

I think the whole CCW scheme in California is flawed, for many reasons. I think Constitutional carry is what the Constitution intends. That said:

Just what is the purpose of your post other than to tell everyone what only two people knew before and that your word means nothing?

When you entered into an agreement with HP to take the job offered and work in exchange for compensation that was binding on you, it was your word, you integrity, ethics and honesty among other characteristics on the line.

Did the IA issuing that CCW have a policy of no carry where a business prohibited it through policy known to you? If so that brings up something else but for now:

You gave your word in agreement, signed documents attesting to that agreement and accepted money and benefits from HP.

When you decided to carry you could have remained true to your word and either sought a waiver to carry at work, try to change that policy or seek employment somewhere else. Yet for years you just ignored your agreement and since you didn't say you asked for a waiver nor to change the policy (since only two other people knew about your carry at work) you did neither.

Now you come here and brag about how you did this for years. Instead of keeping that information to yourself you came here to tell the world. Oh nice, you sure pulled the wool over HPs eyes.

If you'd lie (which is what it was at the very least, a fraud very likely) about that, what else wouldn't you lie about? Would you claim you are a trustworthy person? How so and based on what you did and acknowledged in public you can't begin to prove it.

It is one thing to enter into a contract for something like work where there is a no carry policy and upon deciding you'd carry anyway ask for aa waiver, try to change the policy or leave and go elsewhere and an entirely different thing to carry anyway and think you did anything right, enough to tell everyone else about it, which it what you just did.

HP dodged a bullet (no pun intended) because you're out of their company. What you did represents the worst of gun owners, contempt for those who hire you to do a job, pay you well (HP is known for that although that is subjective), likely violating the conditions of your CCW, displaying a lack of trust, honesty and integrity on a bunch of levels.

What you did isn't like someone who takes to a civil disobedience of some government action where you aren't accepting money from others where you agree to abide by some condition, this is way beyond that.

There are lots of laws surrounding gun control that many people don't agree with but we all have choices, to declare non-compliance openly and deal with the consequences, non-compliance without harm to others (and you harmed HP) and deal with the consequences if caught, to leave the State as many have done and so on. Instead, you did none of those because you did harm HP. This is now public information, a search for HP and carrying guns at work will reveal your post. That could be argued to have damaged their reputation in that their security systems are inadequate because if you could carry there for five years without being caught so could any BG.

I'm not a lawyer but I wonder if HP couldn't take your post and then bring suit against you for some kind of fraud.

When others read your post and I'm not talking about the others who cheer you on and have done likewise, their conclusion that gun owners who have CCWs are untrustworthy might be justified and you'd be the perfect example.

But maybe you could answer one question although who in their right mind would trust the answer - why did you post that? Was it to brag? Was it to help anyone? Was it support some cause? What i something else like conscience?




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[tawadc95]

It’s a nice benefit of owning your own biz and facility.