Carry at Work

[harbormaster]

Do you - could you - could you and don't? It seems as though an owner of a business can carry at his or her business - but what about employees? I'm aware of many owners saying "no guns" at their business but can an owner say go ahead and carry on the business premises? Guessing said owner is then agreeing to liability for an employee carrying? Very complicated stuff - anywhere there is an easy answer?

[Librarian]

Do you - could you - could you and don't? It seems as though an owner of a business can carry at his or her business - but what about employees? I'm aware of many owners saying "no guns" at their business but can an owner say go ahead and carry on the business premises? Guessing said owner is then agreeing to liability for an employee carrying? Very complicated stuff - anywhere there is an easy answer?

Short answer - owner can, generally, do that, but employees will need CCW to carry in any publicly-accessible space.

Longer answer - see the wiki http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...oncealed_Carry

And then there is 'local custom'. Look at your favorite gun store - chances are some or many of the counter staff are carrying, and do not have CCW. It's arguable that 'behind the counter' is not 'publicly accessible', and some stores use a buzz-in entry process, where the whole store is kept private access by that locked door.

It appears that some local LE think armed staff at a gun store is a good idea, and choose not to enforce CCW in such places.

[harbormaster]

^^^
thank you

[igs]

And then there is 'local custom'. Look at your favorite gun store - chances are some or many of the counter staff are carrying, and do not have CCW.

They open carry so a CCW wouldn't help.

[Quiet]

They open carry so a CCW wouldn't help.

Still applies because of CA laws prohibiting the carrying of loaded firearms in public and an exemption to this being granted to CA CCW permit holders.


Because of CA laws on loaded firearm in public and CA case laws clarifying those laws...
... for a non-exempt person, loaded open carry is not legal while on private property that is accessible to the public.
... for a non-exempt person, loaded open carry is legal while on private property that is not accessible to the public.

[beerman]

Our Aerospace firm has a strict no weapons rule. That said, upper management is all gunners. It’s not enforced, but legally on the books to cover the corporate butt. CEO has a North American grand slam of mounts in his office. I usually kept a handgun in my locked desk. Sadly companies really can’t allow guns for insurance/ OSHA/ legal reasons.

[MountainMike]

The base co at my homeport just relaxed policy allowing people to keep weapons in their vehicle provided they're unloaded. I bought a gun on a port call and it's in my ships armory till I get home. I've even heard second hand stories of our sister ship dropping anchor and launching the small boat to send a shore party hunting. God I love Alaska.

[Dan_Eastvale]

I ccw’d at the public elementary school while teaching STEM.

[9Cal_OC]

[SharedShots]

Do you - could you - could you and don't? It seems as though an owner of a business can carry at his or her business - but what about employees? I'm aware of many owners saying "no guns" at their business but can an owner say go ahead and carry on the business premises? Guessing said owner is then agreeing to liability for an employee carrying? Very complicated stuff - anywhere there is an easy answer?

Anyone who has had employees knows at least one thing, employees will do questionable things and even employees who demonstrate good work ethics, are good at their jobs can and will take advantage and when something goes wrong look at the employer and say it's their fault. No one can predict when someone will look out for their own hide despite others being very considerate of them when they need something. It isn't about being able to size up people because we've all see the stories about how someone at a job did really bad things and everyone says, "but they were so nice, I never thought they'd do X".

We all have choices on where to work and if a business owner decides they don't want employees carrying while on the premises and the employee doesn't accept that, everyone knows where the front door it. If you feel that unsafe at your job for whatever reason and the policy is no carry then right then and there you have a choice to make and carrying anyway is unethical and speaks to a lack of character, something supposedly in California you're supposed to have to get a CCW right?

If a business has a policy of no carry but you carry anyway and some supervisor or even the biz owner knows and winks, what happens if something goes wrong. Would you step up and pay for the liability defense of the business? I seriously doubt most people would, the first thing they'd say is something like "yeah but my supervisor/boss/biz owner" knew I was carrying, it's on them".

I would never allow a contractor to visit my home/property to do work and carry. There is no discussion about it and I make it clear BEFORE any contract is signed, and every work contract will stipulate MY policy because it's my place. It isn't about some 2/A right, its about someone I don't know showing up to do things, might be welding, crawling around under the house, climbing up and down ladders, working around open flames, energized electrical circuits and so on and things happen, keep the gun locked up in the vehicle or don't bring it. If someone is that fearful of tyranny or some BG while they are 20' up a ladder working on some exterior lighting what are they going to do, get into some firefight from my rooftop?

Here's the thing though, it's called respect. The employer gives you the respect and consideration to offer you a job. They don't have to do that. They should have a policy in place regarding carrying while on the premises and if they don't then ask. If you think asking would hurt your chances of getting the job then it's usually one of two reasons: You think they will not make the offer, or you intend to circumvent the policy if you find they don't allow carry on the jobsite. In the first case, look for another job. I the second case if you accept the offer and then discover the policy says no carry but then carry anyway you really aren't worthy of any trust, if you want to make the rules then start your own business and then you can be king.

With all that, if there is Constitutional Carry and there are no exemptions then a policy against carry doesn't matter much and I'd say ignoring the policy is ok, you would have recourse if punitive action were taken against you because you carry on the job.

We as gun owners and especially those who have CCWs or can carry via another authorization tend to think rights start and end with us. They don't. We also don't get to decide that we're the sole arbiters of when, where and how we can carry because of the 2/A and that carry is ok because hooray 2/A regardless that we make choices saying we won't in certain circumstances and then turn right around and go back on our agreement with someone like an employer.

Concealed means concealed; we hear that all the time but concealed in violation of an agreement you made not to carry in order to get a job makes your word worthless and you as a person untrustworthy, IMHO of course.

[slayer61]

To and from... but not at. Violation of company policy, and employed inside locked gate, with small group of like minded guys.

[Maulerrr]

I carry to and from, and leave vehicle locked in my car. Employee parking garage has one way in and out which is staffed by at least 1 security guy camped at the entrance at all times. I've carried on my person a few times while at work but that's pretty rare. My company has a no-firearms policy.

[broadside]

Anyone who has had employees knows at least one thing, employees will do questionable things and even employees who demonstrate good work ethics, are good at their jobs can and will take advantage and when something goes wrong look at the employer and say it's their fault. No one can predict when someone will look out for their own hide despite others being very considerate of them when they need something. It isn't about being able to size up people because we've all see the stories about how someone at a job did really bad things and everyone says, "but they were so nice, I never thought they'd do X".

The problem with that logic is that someone that wants to do something bad is going to bring their gun in regardless of the company policy that you are following, leaving you unarmed and the bad guy with a gun or two in hand.

It's a catch-22. I want my private property rights to be upheld where I can say no guns if I want, but those same rights need to apply to an employer's property.

[SharedShots]

The problem with that logic is that someone that wants to do something bad is going to bring their gun in regardless of the company policy that you are following, leaving you unarmed and the bad guy with a gun or two in hand.

It's a catch-22. I want my private property rights to be upheld where I can say no guns if I want, but those same rights need to apply to an employer's property.

Thats the reality of life. Agreed it's a catch-22 but as has been said a long time ago, life isn't fair or equal.

With all the people I know who carried everyday, many chose not to later on when it's not required even though they can without going through the hassle of a CCW. They aren't all worried about what could happen; the things that could have happened to them before makes anything that could happen now rather dull.

The other side of the coin is that just because you can do something or get away with something you ought not do doesn't mean you should.

Fear is a strange thing, it can become so ingrained in your lifestyle. It happens often when the daily news, the horror of SHTF, the bombardment of media constantly blasting the worst (because it attracts viewers and subscribers) can give one the impression that should you venture outside your front door someone somewhere has already targeted you and it's just a matter of time.

Get a bunch of people together and let them converse in the bag things of the day and in short order they are prepping for a firefight. It happens right on this forum, if you observe a bit, you'll see it.

For the work site it comes down to a choice. Work where its ok or move on and find one where it is.

You see people wearing masks while driving alone. Some people will walk along a deserted beach with no one around for miles and carry a gun because someone might do a helo drop and do them, or; some wetsuited BG will jump out of the surf with Glocks a-blazing.

[lmcc0072]

Business owners, especially in California, can not allow CCW on company property. There’s just too much liability involved to allow it in this state. Even if your employee stops a mass shooter on company property, the mainstream media and politicians will crucify both of you. Does anyone really think that the msm and other anti gun groups will praise or even report such an event?

For higher risk businesses like the LGS or a marijuana dispensary you would need to hire professional security/employees that can carry and handle firearms.