Ammo transport-Burden of Proof

[Calif Hunter]

I do not worry about this at all. If I am varmint hunting in AZ, for example, that will be obvious in any search as the varmint rifles, camo, calls, etc will be there.

At the check station, they usually just ask where I am traveling from, and maybe if I have any produce.

[Snoopy47]

Just don't get stopped while crossing the boarder.

Keep all registration current, keep all mechanical aspects that justify probable cause for stopping you WORKING then you should be in the clear. No tinted windows, no cracked windshields, working license plate lights, etc...... even the little things (graduated police academy, but never became cop, training still very useful :-)

Then keep your mouth shut.

Don't drive around in big beat up trucks with Gun and NRA stickers all over it.

Non of our opinions here matter except for the officer that is stopping you.

Don't give an officer a valid reason to stop you. At best you still lose all your ammo, and the charges are thrown out for lack of PC, but you still lose your ammo because it's not worth the fight to get it back through the legal process it would take (regardless of how right you are).

[Liberty Prime]

Aren't there lots of places into California where there isn't even a checkpoint?

I was recently up at Tahoe and I went to Virginia City for one day. I never saw any checkpoints, and never was stopped or questioned. Honestly, I didn't even realize I was in Nevada until I just thought about it now.

[P5Ret]

It is almost invariant that prosecution must establish that the accused has committed all the elements of a crime. (A confession is one exception; there might be more.)

Don't talk yourself into jail.

In order to be cited for the infraction, the officer would have to witness the purchase, and crossing of the state line. He/she would have to maintain visual contact from purchase to state line.

Since there is an easy out written right in the law, for those of us who take a spouse with us, it really is irrelevant, not to mention a complete and total waste of LE time and resources.

(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
(c) A violation of this section is an infraction for any first time offense, and either an infraction or a misdemeanor for any subsequent offense.

[Ross]

Scenario 1.

"I bought this [ammo] in California."

"How long ago? "

"Three months."

"Great, let's check the records. "

Scenario 2.


"I bought this [ammo] in California."

"How long ago? "

"Three years."

"Great, lets check the lot number and manufacturing date."

Scenario 3.


"I bought this [ammo] in California."

"How long ago? "

"I refuse to answer the question. Am i being detained?" (Or anything similar.)

"Step out of the vehicle and turn around. Need you to sit in my vehicle until we can get this sorted out."





Either way, be very, very careful of how you answer the question "when did you buy it?"

[Liberty Prime]

Scenario 1.

...

Scenario 2.

...

Scenario 3.

...

Either way, be very, very careful of how you answer the question "when did you buy it?"

Scenario 4.

"My [parent/grandparent/spouse/child/grandchild] gave me this ammo"

"Have a good day, [sir/ma'am]"

[Mayor McRifle]

Scenario 1.

"I bought this [ammo] in California."

"How long ago? "

"Three months."

"Great, let's check the records. "

Scenario 2.


"I bought this [ammo] in California."

"How long ago? "

"Three years."

"Great, lets check the lot number and manufacturing date."

Scenario 3.


"I bought this [ammo] in California."

"How long ago? "

"I refuse to answer the question. Am i being detained?" (Or anything similar.)

"Step out of the vehicle and turn around. Need you to sit in my vehicle until we can get this sorted out."


Either way, be very, very careful of how you answer the question "when did you buy it?"

Scenario 4: “I have an FFL03 & COE. I order it online at discount prices and get it shipped directly to my door without all the background checks. It’s absolutely legal, but there are no records for you to check.“

And in answer to the OP, the burden of proof that a crime was committed and that the accused committed it (“beyond a reasonable doubt”) is always on the government when establishing guilt in criminal matters.

[Ross]

Scenario 4: “I have an FFL03 & COE. I order it online at discount prices and get it shipped directly to my door without all the background checks. It’s absolutely legal, but there are no records for you to check.“

.

"Great, step out of the vehicle sir and into mine while we confirm your licenses. And you bought it from which vendor?"

Perfectly legal for a LEO to do a confirmation, within a reasonable amount of time. Oh, and "reasonable amount of time" is not defined by a clock or calendar. A smart LEO knows how to work, ethically, with their limits and, without infringing upon our rights. I know, my brother in law r 1.

Thing is, there's not a dealer in sight west of the 8 or 40 from the AZ border so, for example, if followed then stopped at the the Ag checkpoint for "further inspection" out of Yuma/Wintergardens with a few thousand rounds of .22, .45, 9mm, 12ga, etc. You need all your ducks in a row.

And as an FYSA, I have seen CHiP officers shopping at Sprauge's in Yuma. By all appearances, it was personal shopping but, in the store none the less.

[Mayor McRifle]

"Great, step out of the vehicle sir and into mine while we confirm your licenses. And you bought it from which vendor?"

Perfectly legal for a LEO to do a confirmation, within a reasonable amount of time. Oh, and "reasonable amount of time" is not defined by a clock or calendar. A smart LEO knows how to work, ethically, with their limits and, without infringing upon our rights. I know, my brother in law r 1.

[-hanko]

LOL. What has Calguns done to you? That kind of paranoia will destroy you.

Understatement of the day...lack of courage degenerates down to paranoia. Sad.

[sigstroker]

Aren't there lots of places into California where there isn't even a checkpoint?

I was recently up at Tahoe and I went to Virginia City for one day. I never saw any checkpoints, and never was stopped or questioned. Honestly, I didn't even realize I was in Nevada until I just thought about it now.

Nevada doesn't have checkpoints, Cali does.

[RickD427]

A CA resident travels out of state with ammo in his vehicle. He returns to CA with same ammo in his vehicle.

Is the burden of proof on the resident that he is not importing said ammo?


NOTE: the resident is not a prohibited person. The ammo was legally purchased within CA state.

Sorry, the Search bar is not working for me.

The burden of proof is on the state to show the elements of the offense. If a defendant seeks to raise an affirmative defense, then the burden generally shifts to the defendant as to the particular defense, but that doesn't change the fact that the state still has to carry their burden as to the elements.

LOL. What has Calguns done to you? That kind of paranoia will destroy you.

“No problem, Officer. I’m an attorney. I assume you have some sort of reasonable suspicion here. Can you go ahead and articulate that for me?”

Please keep in mind that while the LEO needs to have "Reasonable Suspicion" to make an investigative detention, and "Probable Cause" to make an arrest, there is no requirement for the LEO to articulate that RC or PC to the subject of the detention or arrest, at the scene of the detention or arrest. The defendant has the opportunity to challenge both at trial, but not at the scene.

Nevada doesn't have checkpoints, Cali does.

Also keep in mind that California's checkpoints are limited to agricultural inspections only and that the employees of the checkpoints lack peace officer status.

[Divernhunter]

When I came back from Texas(on a hunt) they only asked about plants/fruits and such.
I told them all I had was 2 dead bodies in the ice chests. They waved me thru.
Returning from Utah I had one cut and wrapped body and same thing.
Returning from Reno they asked again but no bodies this time.

Never did they ask about ammo

[RickD427]

When I came back from Texas(on a hunt) they only asked about plants/fruits and such.
I told them all I had was 2 dead bodies in the ice chests. They waved me thru.
Returning from Utah I had one cut and wrapped body and same thing.
Returning from Reno they asked again but no bodies this time.

Never did they ask about ammo

You sir, have a sick sense of humor

I passed through the I-5 checkpoint at the Oregon border and when asked if I had any fruit products in the vehicle, I replied just these "Fruit Flavored Gummi Bears - want one?" as held the bag out to offer the inspector some.

I got waved through - quickly.

Never have been asked about anything not related to agriculture, and the inspectors have always been really pleasant.

[Liberty Prime]

Nevada doesn't have checkpoints, Cali does.

I did not hit any checkpoints either coming or going.