ammo background check experiences

[Beetle Bailey]

Hey guys, I've been on CalGuns for a couple years as a lurker and I figured this is an appropriate time to make my first post. This is what I experienced today when I went to but some 22LR at Turner's today. For those of you that are to lazy to read, there's a TLDR at the bottom of the post with a short synopsis of my experience.

Here's a little background info, my first firearm purchase was in 2012 and it was a stripped AR lower. I thought this was gonna be an issue because from my understanding the CFARs/AFS started on long guns in 2014. I figured hey I'll just buy a handgun so I can be in the system and I won't have any issues buying ammo for my rifle or my handgun on or after July 1st. I DROS'd my second firearm last month and I ended up getting a Glock 19.

I know some of you guys are gonna say something along the lines of "this dude should've stocked up instead of waiting until now" and for what it's worth I've been stockpiling .223, 5.56 and 9mm to the best of my budget. I also ended up getting a 22LR conversion bolt and mag set because shooting 5 cent rounds sounded appealing to me and it felt like a good way to introduce my girlfriend to shooting.

Here's what happened:

I walked into Turner's and went straight back to the ammo counter where a few employees were standing and one guy asked what he could help me with. I told him I wanted to pick up some bulk 22lr so I could test out the conversion bolt I just picked up and asked what he had. He and the rest of the folks behind the counter said "you should've picked up yesterday, but you can be our guinea pig." I said what the hell, let's see how long this is going to take and see if there are any problems. I figured I'd be good to go because of the Glock that I DROS'd last month and proceeded to hand him my ID. He swiped my REAL ID and asked what my race was and asked if I was in the CFARS system and I responded. He then started typing away and printed out a form (similar to a DROS form) and asked me to verify my information then sign. I skimmed through the paperwork verified my information and signed. A few minutes later the guy asked his co-worker standing next to him "what does this mean?" Then the manager responded "You didn't clear the standard background check. You can do the $19 check and wait but we don't know how long it's gonna be. Unfortunately you can't walk out of here with the ammo until you get a verification. Hopefully you'll get something in the mail explaining why you were denied but I have no idea if that's gonna happen or how long it will take."

I was pretty bummed because I didn't have any ammo to test out the 22lr conversion I bought and I was concerned about being able to buy ammo in the future. I told the manager that it didn't make any sense because I DROS'd my Glock last month and showed him a picture of my paperwork that I had on my phone, that's when I noticed something. My paperwork that was filled out for my Glock showed First Name: JohnDoe Last Name: Person (using these names for the sake of anonymity) and the paperwork that the employee filled out at Turner's showed First Name: John Doe Last Name: Person. I asked if my name came up like that when he swiped my ID and he replied "no, I added the space between your first names because sometimes when we do DROS paperwork for people with Jr. or Sr. in their last names it shows $% signs so I figured it was a mistake on the computer's end." He then asked if I'd like to try again without the space in between my names and I said what the hell I'm already denied what's the worst that could happen. Then again he swiped my ID, printed the papers and I signed again. A few minutes later he said "You passed". I proceeded to pay for the ammo and background checks and asked for a bag so I could take off.

The employee's co-worker said "now we just have to fill out information so you can take "delivery" of this ammo." They proceeded to fill out the quantity, brand, caliber, bullet type, muzzle velocity, muzzle energy, case type and cost per round. That's when everyone behind the counter including myself said WTF. This part alone took over 10 minutes because the cheap bulk box of Aguila didn't have muzzle energy on it. The manager then said "We have to fill everything out according to that email we got this morning but if you can't find the muzzle energy then leave it blank." After that painful 10-15 minutes I had to sign yet another form and I asked the manager if he needed my left kidney before I could walk out with the ammo and he chuckled and thanked me for being a guinea pig and for my patience.

For those of you that read through this ridiculously long post, make sure your information matches your DROS paperwork EXACTLY.

For those of you that were lazy, TLDR:Bought stripped lower in 2012 (not in CFARS/AFS) then bought Glock last month to make sure I was eligible to buy ammo after July 1st. Employee at Turner's added a space in-between my two first names and got denied. Did another background check without space and got approved. Waited 10+ minutes for them to fill out paperwork that had more information on they type of ammo I bought than I'd ever care for before I could leave. Signed a whole bunch of papers and left. Lesson for the day, Make sure your paperwork matches your DROS paperwork exactly.

Thanks for the info! FYI if you ever need to to know muzzle energy, you can figure it out if you know the bullet weight (in grains) and the velocity (in feet per second).

First you take the velocity squared, and then multiple by the bullet weight. Then take that sum and divide by 450400. The final sum is your muzzle energy in ft. lbs.

So for your example of Aguila 38 grain .22lr ammo (assuming it is the Super Extra with 1280 FPS MV):

(1280 x 1280) x 38 = 62,259,200

62,259,200 / 450400 = 138.23

So Aguila 38 grain Super Extra makes 138 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy.

That said, if ME calculations are going to be required for all ammo purchases, I predict wait times are going to really suck at a lot of places.

[Dirtlaw]

Almost as effective as an outright ammo ban.

[AregularGuy]

Also of interest to me is they have a field for "usage type". Why are they tracking this as well? If I ever buy ammo I will tell them I'm never going to shoot it. I'm going to dump it all in a huge vault and swim around in it a la Scrooge McDuck! Usage type: Swimming

Almost as effective as an outright ammo ban.

Yup, agreed. There are already peopl reporting that they have either been denied, or deterred from exercising their 2A rights due to this process. Add to that, if you are from out of State you cannot buy ammo in CA. So much for being an "American". Welcome to California, leave your rights at the border.

[Usmc0844spare]

How the DROS System works

I went to a local range today and one of the range employees, as an experiment, DROSed himself in the morning without buying any ammo just to see if he would qualify.

He did qualify and the DROS printout had a DROS approval number and two date-times stamps. One time stamp was the DROS's initial date-time and the other was the DROS's expire date-time. The DROS is good for 18 hours.

Later in the day he bought one box of .22LR ammo and had to enter in his previous DROS approval number.

After the .22 LR transaction, the previous DROS approval number became invalid for future purchases over the remaining time within the 18 hours period.

It appears that the DROS system is only good for a single purchase transaction with an 18 hour period. If you want to later buy ammo the same day after the first transaction, you would need to re-DROS again.

I've asked this a couple times and never seen a response. It is my understanding that if you buy from a range you have to shoot what you buy before you leave or something insane like that?

Is that indeed the case, how are they going to track that?

[Dirtlaw]

I've asked this a couple times and never seen a response. It is my understanding that if you buy from a range you have to shoot what you buy before you leave or something insane like that?

Is that indeed the case, how are they going to track that?

You have to return the spent brass. Just say a prayer that none of it goes onto the active part of the range!

[God Bless America]

Please keep in mind that they want you to not buy ammo.

[Dirtlaw]

You have to return the spent brass. Just say a prayer that none of it goes onto the active part of the range!

By the way, I'm just trying to make light of the insanity of it all. Apparently I fell down a rabbit hole and ended up in a world where nothing makes sense and up is really down. We're all pretty frustrated I think.

[A-J]

Did anybody try to buy ammo today?

I'm probably done buying ammo in this state.

[psun786]

I've asked this a couple times and never seen a response. It is my understanding that if you buy from a range you have to shoot what you buy before you leave or something insane like that?

Is that indeed the case, how are they going to track that?

As long you are using the range on that visit there is no background check needed. My range has no problem with me purchase ammo after I am done shooting. They don’t care if I shoot the ammo I bought there or not. Heck, their regular price is even lower than Tuners’ weekly flyer.

[Can'thavenuthingood]

I've asked this a couple times and never seen a response. It is my understanding that if you buy from a range you have to shoot what you buy before you leave or something insane like that?

Is that indeed the case, how are they going to track that?

Not the case.


I bought 3 boxes at the shooting range Tuesday and walked out with it.


If I was to actually shoot at the range I would not have to go through a background check.


Background check is only if you purchase and leave.
Though if your gun jams after 3 rounds you'll need a Gunsmith so the ammo bought for the range goes out the door with you.


Vick



Vick

[Jimi Jah]

I stocked up. The next time I need ammo, (many years from now) I'll go to AZ.

[Preston-CLB]

My experience at Big-5 in Sonora this morning (7/2).

Since my DL has my PO Box, and my AFS record uses my residence address, I was very curious if the instant BG (1$ fee) check would work.

Just to be prepared, I also had my vehicle registration that shows both my residence address and PO Box.

Right off the bat I explained the difference.

The lady I was working with was very nice, and explained that the process would take a while since they only got the software and instructions from DOJ yesterday (7/1).

She took my DL and registration into the office, entered my info showing my residence address and then asked for my state of birth and phone number.

She came out a little while later and asked me to review the info: it looked fine. She then ran the check and it came back "good" for the 1$ check.

Just a moment ago, I got a call from Big-5. Apparently a code was incorrect from DOJ, so DOJ charged me $19, which is in error. She asked me to come back, bring the receipt, and she would correct it to show the 1$ charge, rather than $19. I'll do that tomorrow.

So, all in all, a good experience at the store. ( I won't rant about the ridiculousness of the law here)

It will be interesting to see how the process goes at Walmart and my LGS.
--P

[Dirtlaw]

Glitches snarl start of California's ammo background checks

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/glitches-snarl-start-californias-ammo-212233062.html

[Hinnerk]

...They proceeded to fill out the quantity, brand, caliber, bullet type, muzzle velocity, muzzle energy, case type and cost per round. That's when everyone behind the counter including myself said WTF. This part alone took over 10 minutes because the cheap bulk box of Aguila didn't have muzzle energy on it. The manager then said "We have to fill everything out according to that email we got this morning but if you can't find the muzzle energy then leave it blank." ...

Muzzle velocity and muzzle energy?! The only correct answer is "TBD" ... in ALL cases.

That is like asking the mpg for a brand and type of gasoline. MV and ME are different according to the firearm (and temperature, etc.). Gotta get out the chrony to answer that one.

Who came up with these forms?

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[omgwtfbbq]

Bought 250 rounds of 12 gauge , I needed
1. Real ID
2. Own a 12 gauge shotgun at the address of my real ID
3. 1 buck
I paid the dollar a little over 20 mins walked out with my Ammo

The bolded section is FUD. I'm an LGS manager and you are not required to own/have a weapon registered in your name that matches the caliber of ammo you are purchasing.

This is a vestigial portion of Prop 63 that was "pre-amended" by SB1235.

In regards to the "smoothness" of the process. For us it's been a mixed back. The paperwork and background checks thus far haven't been difficult but we've had a handful of denials which means dealing with grumpy customers. Additionally the DOJ (and LAX ammo) was spending the word that the checks were going to take no less than 90 seconds. Thus far the average approval time has been more like 2-3 minutes. We had one approval take over 10 minutes yesterday.

I ran a check using my COE today and the check approval was literally instant. However there are still two forms that need to be signed by bother purchaser and the employee which ups the time per transaction. All told we've estimated it's about 5 mins for each ammo purchase.