Question about Reno Gun Shows

[Gator Monroe]

As I dig through plastic tubs of used AK & AR parts & jumbled boxes of Nam era Milsurp I will hold my CDL up to show that I'm OK ! (lol, I think ?)

[domokun]

I'll say this. When I went to the "Big" Reno show last November i was a complete noob to out of state gun shows and I was very naive about State and Federal laws pertaining to firearms. I was looking at an M1 Garand and a really nice 1911 and was asking the booth operator about them. As soon as the fact that I live in California exited my mouth he quickly grabbed the 1911 from my hand and quickly locked up both guns. I asked "What's wrong?" and I think by the stunned look on my face he realized I was no LEO. he then apologized and explained to me that he can't even talk to me about the sale of a gun and he would not let me handle any of his guns. he proceeded to explain the ramifications of doing so and said the only way he can sell a gun to a California resident is if they held a valid FFL. Then I said that I was there with my friend who is an FFL I can just have him come by a pick them up for me. That's when I learned all about "proxy" gun sales and that doing so would land all of us in hot water.


So the gist of my post is this... if you go to an out of state gun show DO NOT even think about buying a firearm. Buy all the ammo and accessories and parts you want, but forget about anything with a serial #.

The guy is spreading FUD. If it's something legal for you to buy and have shipped directly into CA just like any other purchase via the Internet, then there's no reason for them to not sell it to you besides the fact that they're exercising their right to not do business with folks that they're not comfortable doing business with (which happens to be Californians in this case). Frankly, i don't blame them because our laws are so convoluted that it takes a flowchart to figure out if a Center-fire rifle is legal or not and the CA DOJ's BOF is wishy-washy about giving accurate information to FFL holders outside of CA and making them nervous about selling to Californians.

As you've discovered, you need to choose your words carefully while at out of state gun shows when speaking to dealers at the show. There are ATF and CA DOJ agents floating around the floor incognito observing the people at the show and looking for illegal activities taking place. Your choice of words to a dealer at the Reno show may peak the interest of someone observing and cause them some unwanted attention by the ATF, etc and thus making them nervous. Fortunately, this isn't the case usually and some will happily do business with you anyways as long as they don't know you're from California or you're buying a C&R firearm with an 03 FFL.

My understanding is that you can purchase a gun in another state - shop, show or some guy - but not take delivery. You have to have a local FFL ship it to an FFL in California, go through the usual CA purchase paperwork and waiting period. And the gun has to be CA legal. So if you are at a Reno gun show you can easily buy from local FFLs.

Is this correct?

The above is correct. The handgun must be on the CA DOJ Approved Handgun Roster in order for you to be able to purchase it. All AW laws in CA apply when purchasing something that you intend to have shipped into CA directly or via an intermediary FFL outside of CA prior to its entry into CA.

[sanb909]

Are the CA DOJ agents somehow "cross-deputized" to act as LEOs in NV and AZ? Do they note illegal stuff and then flag down the BATFE guys?

As a side note, it seems odd that people are getting hassled for wanting to buy a gun out of state. Doesn't it occur to the dealers that the person might know they need an FFL to receive it in CA?

I was recently in Houston and found that they knew our laws very well. Not sure how common that is, but it sounds like it's not to be expected at the NV/AZ shows.

[oldschool88]

Would it be a bad idea to go to a Reno gun show only for parts and ammo but take a gun or two to legally shoot while down there. Would there be any trouble while trying to come back?

[leitung]

Man the paranoia is thick here, while it's understandable, I dont think some of it is needed. It is perfectly legal for you to buy a California Legal firearm at the Reno show, provided it's shipped to a CA FFL for paperwork processing. Many FFLs and private sellers are CA friendly and will sell to you provided you wish to follow the process. I have witnessed many CA residents buying guns though the Reno show. Most dealers ask: "Are you a Nevada Resident?" if not they ask for the address of the dealer that you wish to ship the firearm to. It's not as scary as you think... really it's not. C&R holders, you can buy C&R long guns and bring them back and log them in your bound book. You can also buy handguns, bring them back, and register them and log them in your bound book. You can buy high caps with no ID or anything, just dont bring them back assembled into CA, or build them once you get back. I have many Hi-Caps out of state, as well as tracer rounds that I use when I shoot my guns with family outside of Carson City. Keep it legal, and you have NOTHING to worry about. Don't worry about the nice little feds/CADOJ snooping around the show, they are to busy shopping for their next gun buy and spending you tax $ at the slots down the hall.

[rumble phish]

The guy is spreading FUD. If it's something legal for you to buy and have shipped directly into CA just like any other purchase via the Internet, then there's no reason for them to not sell it to you besides the fact that they're exercising their right to not do business with folks that they're not comfortable doing business with (which happens to be Californians in this case). Frankly, i don't blame them because our laws are so convoluted that it takes a flowchart to figure out if a Center-fire rifle is legal or not and the CA DOJ's BOF is wishy-washy about giving accurate information to FFL holders outside of CA and making them nervous about selling to Californians.

As you've discovered, you need to choose your words carefully while at out of state gun shows when speaking to dealers at the show. There are ATF and CA DOJ agents floating around the floor incognito observing the people at the show and looking for illegal activities taking place. Your choice of words to a dealer at the Reno show may peak the interest of someone observing and cause them some unwanted attention by the ATF, etc and thus making them nervous. Fortunately, this isn't the case usually and some will happily do business with you anyways as long as they don't know you're from California or you're buying a C&R firearm with an 03 FFL.

So that guy was yanking me? Man, that really sucks. Why would he do that? I really wanted that Garand I would have picked up the 1911, too (it was on the roster). Are the dealers THAT nervous that they would bull**** potential out-of-state buyers? Maybe he still thought I was a LEO?

[LE132_00]

I recently had the special agent in charge of the Sacramento ATF office come in and talk during one of my Criminal Justice classes at Sac State. He informed us that ATF agents are present at the Reno Gun Show (duh!!) And if these agents suspect that you are a California resident who has purchased a firearm(such as CA plates on your car) they will contact local law enforcement, such as Reno PD and have them initiate a traffic stop. They will then ask you what you have purchased from the gun show. If it turns out you have purchased a firearm at the Reno Gun Show, it just goes downhill from there (obviously).

[TRICKSTER]

I recently had the special agent in charge of the Sacramento ATF office come in and talk during one of my Criminal Justice classes at Sac State. He informed us that ATF agents are present at the Reno Gun Show (duh!!) And if these agents suspect that you are a California resident who has purchased a firearm(such as CA plates on your car) they will contact local law enforcement, such as Reno PD and have them initiate a traffic stop. They will then ask you what you have purchased from the gun show. If it turns out you have purchased a firearm at the Reno Gun Show, it just goes downhill from there (obviously).

I have been hearing this rumor for years, but have never seen anything about this being reported firsthand by someone that it actually happened to. I have been to 3 Big Reno Shows and purchased handguns, rifles (with my 03 FFL) and hi-cap mags (which is legal for me, but how could any one know that?). If someone was watching, they wouldn’t see me present my 03 and therefore wouldn’t know if the transaction was legal or not. It’s not like I waive it around for all to see.
I hear from some of the vendors that CA DOJ is watching people, but have never run across a vendor that has actually seen or talked to a CA DOJ agent. It just seems like a lot of this is FUD.

[Gator Monroe]

So that guy was yanking me? Man, that really sucks. Why would he do that? I really wanted that Garand I would have picked up the 1911, too (it was on the roster). Are the dealers THAT nervous that they would bull**** potential out-of-state buyers? Maybe he still thought I was a LEO?

I buy everything but Firearms there (Everything )

[SgtDinosaur]

I think the OP was asking about private party sales at the show (i.e. "loophole").

[domokun]

I recently had the special agent in charge of the Sacramento ATF office come in and talk during one of my Criminal Justice classes at Sac State. He informed us that ATF agents are present at the Reno Gun Show (duh!!) And if these agents suspect that you are a California resident who has purchased a firearm(such as CA plates on your car) they will contact local law enforcement, such as Reno PD and have them initiate a traffic stop. They will then ask you what you have purchased from the gun show. If it turns out you have purchased a firearm at the Reno Gun Show, it just goes downhill from there (obviously).

You can purchase the firearm but you cannot take possession of it. The selling dealer must ship it to your CA FFL to complete the transfer. If the above statement was true, then why does Cabelas in Reno have a sign up that says they'll sell you a gun as long as it's CA eligible + you pass background check and it gets shipped into CA to your FFL for transfer?

[dustoff31]

Words mean different things to different people.

For non C & R holders, instead of starting the conversation with:

"I'm from CA, will you sell me this gun?"

Try:

"Will you ship this gun to my FFL in CA?"

[LE132_00]

You can purchase the firearm but you cannot take possession of it. The selling dealer must ship it to your CA FFL to complete the transfer. If the above statement was true, then why does Cabelas in Reno have a sign up that says they'll sell you a gun as long as it's CA eligible + you pass background check and it gets shipped into CA to your FFL for transfer?

What I was saying is if you purchase a firearm, and take possession of it at the gun show, then you might get pulled over by the local PD (with help from the ATF). If you buy it and have it shipped to a CA FFL, then the ATF/local PD agents won't see you walking out to your car (with CA plates) with it. They will then have no reason to initiate a traffic stop. I was just passing along what I had been told about the ATF's presence at the Reno Gun Show, in regards to CA residents purchasing a firearm and then taking possession of it at the show. Sorry about not clarifying that in my original post.

[Steve O]

I tempted to call FUD on all of this.

First off. Is it even a law prohibiting someone from CA buying a firearm in NV for use in NV? I don't think so.
OK. I may be wrong here. So someone who knows first hand please correct me.

Lets say that you some how talk a NV FFL to even allow you to handle a firearm, much less sell it to you. I believe if you intend to keep the firearm in NV at a friend or family members ranch for use while in that state I think that is perfectly legal. (This may be long guns only?)

So if the above is legal. Then why would ATF scout out CA plates and pull you over? You haven't violated any laws!
I believe the crime would be committed if a CA resident intended to import the firearm. So essentially the crime would be committed just as you cross the border with said firearm.

And now one more step further in to the complex guns laws...I believe you as a CA resident are allowed to buy long guns in NV and bring them in to CA if they are not AW's? I read this here in CG's in another thread a while back. perhaps my memory fails me, but that what I thought I understood.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I tempted to call FUD on all of this.

First off. Is it even a law prohibiting someone from CA buying a firearm in NV for use in NV? I don't think so.
OK. I may be wrong here. So someone who knows first hand please correct me.

A combination of both Federal law and California law prohibits most Californians from acquiring most kinds of firearms while out of state.

Lets say that you some how talk a NV FFL to even allow you to handle a firearm, much less sell it to you. I believe if you intend to keep the firearm in NV at a friend or family members ranch for use while in that state I think that is perfectly legal. (This may be long guns only?)

A Nevada FFL can sell C&R long guns that are over 50 years old to an unlicensed California resident. Most of them don't know this. All other firearm sales are forbidden, even if the California resident plans to keep the firearm only in Nevada.

So if the above is legal. Then why would ATF scout out CA plates and pull you over? You haven't violated any laws!
I believe the crime would be committed if a CA resident intended to import the firearm. So essentially the crime would be committed just as you cross the border with said firearm.

They might want to recover the weapon so that they can use it as evidence after they charge the seller for the illegal sale. Or they could be waiting for you to cross the border with it so they can charge you with the illegal importation.

And now one more step further in to the complex guns laws...I believe you as a CA resident are allowed to buy long guns in NV and bring them in to CA if they are not AW's? I read this here in CG's in another thread a while back. perhaps my memory fails me, but that what I thought I understood.

You can only buy rifles and shotguns. They must be over 50 years old. You must acquire them from a Nevada FFL. You must take possession at the Nevada FFL's licensed premises. If the Nevada FFL is a Licensed Dealer then a Nevada gunshow can be considered an extension of his licensed premises. If the Nevada FFL is a Licensed Collector then you have to actually go to his licensed premises to pick up the rifle or shotgun.