Warning: Full Auto Firearms!

[M1A Rifleman]

Hmm, I thought the drop-in auto sears were the restricted parts requiring class 3 and tax stamp.

[mdouglas1980]

This is kinda still on topic here but, Does anyone know the cost in involved in getting a Class 3 weapons license to have full auto weapons? I know that CA doesn't issue them but you can have them in AZ, OR, & NV. Practically all the states that border ours. I'm sure it is expensive and the "no knock" from the ATF as well would be interesting.

[ke6guj]

Hmm, I thought the drop-in auto sears were the restricted parts requiring class 3 and tax stamp.

yes, DIAS's are a controlled part, and you would need to buy a registered DIAS on a Form 4 to be legal. If you were in a free state, plan on spending $10,000 +/- (don't know the current market price) for one.

[ke6guj]

This is kinda still on topic here but, Does anyone know the cost in involved in getting a Class 3 weapons license to have full auto weapons? I know that CA doesn't issue them but you can have them in AZ, OR, & NV. Practically all the states that border ours. I'm sure it is expensive and the "no knock" from the ATF as well would be interesting.

There is no "class 3" license to own a NFA firearm. You just have to be legally allowed to possess it and pay the $200 for the tax stamp. That's it, and no, you don't give up your 4th amendments right when you get a tax stamp.

Now, if you want to be a NFA dealer, then you have to get your 01FFL and spend an additional $500/$1000 per year for the 03 SOT (special occupational taxpayer). Thats it on the federal side, additional stuff on the state side as well.

[mdouglas1980]

There is no "class 3" license to own a NFA firearm. You just have to be legally allowed to possess it and pay the $200 for the tax stamp. That's it, and no, you don't give up your 4th amendments right when you get a tax stamp.

Now, if you want to be a NFA dealer, then you have to get your 01FFL and spend an additional $500/$1000 per year for the 03 SOT (special occupational taxpayer). Thats it on the federal side, additional stuff on the state side as well.

cool thanks for the clarification

[freakshow10mm]

I am a Class 2 manufacturer, meaning I can make NFA weapons including suppressors and machine guns at will. The machine gun I posted in the pic above I made on Sunday because I was bored. I filed a Form 2 which tells the ATF's NFA branch in WV that I have made an NFA weapon.



A dealer's FFL will run $200 and the dealer only SOT status to deal in NFA weapons is $500 yearly.

A manufacturer's FFL will run $150 and the manufacturer (which also allows dealing) of NFA weapons runs $1,000 yearly or $500 yearly (gross receipts under $500K). As a manufacturer, like myself, you also have to register with the US State department under ITAR. This yearly fee is $2250 and is required even if you don't export.

Here is the Yankee Hill .45 Cobra suppressor that just arrived a half hour ago.


RDIAS run $4-6K right now. Lightning Links run a bit cheaper.

If you possess parts that enable the weapon to fire on full auto, without the proper paperwork, you are in violation of the law. The bolt carrier doesn't have anything to do with the firing operation. The fire control group parts do. I could not recommend an M16 trigger, selector, disconnector or hammer in your AR15 semi auto lower, as it could produce full auto fire even if one component is in an otherwise semi auto group.

The sear in the MG pic above requires permanent modifications to the receiver. Once that hole is drilled into the receiver it is a machine gun. I got this receiver from a local gun shop last fall and drilled it for the auto sear.

I will make some DIAS that require no mods to the weapon. Drop it in below the rear takedown pin and fire away.

Here's some pics from quarterbore showing the difference.
DIAS



Lightning Link


Auto sear

[bwiese]

I am a Class 2 manufacturer, meaning I can make NFA weapons
including suppressors and machine guns at will. The machinegun
I posted in the pic above I made on Sunday because I was bored.

I love the way you wrote that.

[oaklander]

I don't think that exception works in California.

Hypo: Can you possess the FA FCG if you do not possess an AR? It sounds stupid, but that is the only exception I could think.

12200. The term "machinegun" as used in this chapter means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can readily be restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. The term also includes any weapon deemed by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms as readily convertible to a machinegun under Chapter 53 (commencing with Section 5801) of Title 26 of the United States Code.

[m24armorer]

[Jonathan Doe]

I have a duty and responsibility to calssify the firearms properly when they come across my office. A lot of guns come in with a lot of questions. Mac's with disconnector disabled, AKs with disconnector modified or additional parts installed for full auto, AR's with similar situation. I do my best to keep them properly classified. I guess most of the people are very clear on the subject matters,but some don't know a lot about it. That is why I posted these threads. I never intended to offend anyone.

[Californio]

I have a duty and responsibility to calssify the firearms properly when they come across my office. A lot of guns come in with a lot of questions. Mac's with disconnector disabled, AKs with disconnector modified or additional parts installed for full auto, AR's with similar situation. I do my best to keep them properly classified. I guess most of the people are very clear on the subject matters,but some don't know a lot about it. That is why I posted these threads. I never intended to offend anyone.

I enjoy your postings. Some the immature egocentric kids around here, looking at the world through an abdominal window, feel it's their duty to thread crap, appoint themselves as hall monitors of the SP (Spelling Police) etc., really don't add much to the conversation. It must be great to be a know it all. I myself like to see what is on the streets and learn from those on the inside. Please continue.

[freakshow10mm]

I don't think that exception works in California.

EDIT: I misread that and thought it was about full auto bolt carriers, that is why I posted the below. Possession of a full auto fire control group is considered a machine gun.

A full auto bolt carrier in no way, shape, or form alters the weapon to fire automatically (full auto) if you have semi auto trigger group installed. There are a ton of AR makers that only use full auto carriers and they ship them to CA.

Skip to about 6:30 to learn how an M16 auto sear works. The weapon fires, the BC moves rearward and recocks the hammer. The auto sear tail holds the hammer cocked until the BC's shoulder hits the auto sear and releases the hammer. This goes on as long as you don't release the trigger or until the ammunition supply is exhausted. The full auto bolt carrier has a shoulder on the lower portion of it. If there is no auto sear to hit and no selector to hold off the disconnector, then full auto cannot occur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ui288P4pGU&playnext_from=PL&feature=PlayList&p=E3ADFA488DF34D2E&playnext=1&index=32

[Jonathan Doe]

I have one of those chrome plated bolt carrier with engraving "NM" on it. I bought as a National Match part.

[freakshow10mm]

National Match BCG are usually full auto carriers as in precision weapons their additional weight is ideal.

[trinydex]

I had an occassion to examine a firearm. It was an AR type. The rifle had complete full auto fire control system and drop in auto sear. And, OLL without magazine lock device. Of course it went full auto. I don't know the full circumstances of arrest/ confiscation of the firearm. But, the guy who had it will be in deep trouble for having a full auto firearm. The sear was the ones they sell in the Shotgun News for about $100.

I know some gun owners and home made gunsmiths want to experiment with their firearms to make it full auto. DO NOT!!! There is no place you can try to test fire it full auto safely without bringing some attention. In my honest opinion, it is not worth the trouble.

Full auto also will cost you a lot of money. When I was in FBI SWAT school, I fired most rounds in semi auto, because I can control and place the shots more accurately without losing too much time. Of course there are times you need to fire full auto, but then controlled burst fire is necessary, except when you have to bail out with your team.

Do not make your firearms full auto, and do not try to make a silencers. Don't get into trouble.

how was fbi swat school?