CABELAS - no brass or bullets...

[CSACANNONEER]

That has been CA law for decades. Please stop spreading FUD, and read the law. That definition of "ammunition" is ONLY APPLICABLE TO PROHIBITED PERSONS and hasn't changed one bit.

[maxx03]

Cabela's lost my business when they started charging sales tax and using these sales tactics.
I've spoken to several component dealers and have been told they will continue to ship components, extreme bullets included.

[sigstroker]

Nope, it's this part:

30305.

(a) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, shall own, possess, or have under custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

The fact that "reloaded" was specifically added might make some think that selling components is just another form of ammunition that hasn't been assembled yet. Otherwise it's unnecessary - ammo is ammo.

[Librarian]

Nope, it's this part:


The fact that "reloaded" was specifically added might make some think that selling components is just another form of ammunition that hasn't been assembled yet. Otherwise it's unnecessary - ammo is ammo.

It wasn't 'added' recently, it's been that way for years. And since that applies to prohibited persons, who cannot buy/own/possess any ammunition by Federal law (18 USC 922 (b(2), d, g, n), nor components and other things by CA law, how is 2018 any different from 2012? Retailers take the risk of unintentionally selling ammo to prohibited persons with every order; they seem to have ways to mitigate that risk already.

[Pardini]

It wasn't 'added' recently, it's been that way for years. And since that applies to prohibited persons, who cannot buy/own/possess any ammunition by Federal law (18 USC 922 (b(2), d, g, n), nor components and other things by CA law, how is 2018 any different from 2012? Retailers take the risk of unintentionally selling ammo to prohibited persons with every order; they seem to have ways to mitigate that risk already.

2018 is different from 2012 in one respect. The State just keeps piling on, making retailers reconsider their policies. If the State decides to go after someone, they are going to go after the big fish. Cabelas may consider themselves to be a big fish and may think that's it's wise to stay out of the pond until they know it's relatively safe.

[GW]

I'm placing an order right now and they aren't stopping brass or loaded ammo.
Sales tax is a show-stopper, though

[FISHNFRANK]

Well, brass and bullets are not affected by the new laws. Unfortunately, some vendors make decisions based on other factors besides the actual law. You can believe or not believe anything you want. The simple fact is that if you really want to know the law, you need to read it for yourself. I'll say it again, reloading components are not affected by the new ammunition laws. BTW, your post is so full of fail, I can't believe you actually posted it. If you think that components will be legally affected, please explain why you think that. If you are just saying that certain vendors may change their policies, that's ALWAYS happening. There are major vendors who won't ship AR 15 cleaning rod to CA. Amazon won't ship Red Ryder BB guns to CA. That doesn't mean that some law was the basis for policies like those, does it?

[Librarian]

I simply said that the way it is written is confusing and I can see how corporate lawyers may/will misinterpret the law.

I'll stand by my earlier statement: if an ammo seller's lawyers find the law confusing, I question their competence.

Now, if their advice is 'eh, this looks clear, but based on past legal changes it still could be a problem - is CA a big enough market that we should risk our company to whims of the CA legislature?' and management decides 'no, too much risk for us to be comfortable', that's entirely a different thing.

All I want from such sellers is a plain 'we don't trust your legislature with the future of our company, so, sorry CA customers.'

But you correctly say you're just reporting; we shouldn't infer a report is endorsing a policy.

[FISHNFRANK]

Thank you. Cabelas obviously wants to sell brass and bullets to CA. I’ve worked in Fortune 500 companies for most of my career and interacted with their legal departments heavily. And what they are is legal risk managers, it isn’t really competence per se but probabilities. By their reading of the law they probably feel that the burden of not selling “bullets” (component) or “cartridges” to prohibited persons is on them. Is CA going to tell them it’s not? No way. Many other vendors are probably going to think the same way.

[langss]

I made my last purchase from Cabela's today. Somehow I missed the start of the sales tax on November 1st. If It had not been a good price even with the tax, I would have backed out. The new law was the end of Ammo Purchase's for me anyway so charging tax just moved things up a little. What sucks was I was planning on, like some of you, buying components from them, but it sounds like that's a no go as well....bu by Cabela's.....

[Adam_12]

So Cabela's will cease to sell brass and bullets to CA residents, but powder and primers are still cool?

[Full Clip]

If Cabelas is charging sales tax. I'm done with them.

Yep, they were always generally on the edge of DEAL/NO DEAL for me.
Only extreme sales + free shipping got me to buy.

[CALI-gula]

Well hopefully they relent but I think others will make the same type of interpretation.

Cabelas may feel that the burden of determining who is a prohibited person falls on them and they don’t want to deal with it. Thanks for posting

You seem to be under the impression this is the first time companies like Cabela's, Cheaper-than-Dirt, Sportsman's Guide, CDNN, Midway, and a host of others have misinterpreted the law or come up with a few of their own.

They've done this with ammo in the past under certain scenarios (like .50BMG) or just to certain areas in general (such as misinterpreting Los Angeles City ordinances apply to Los Angeles County) and refusing to ship legal parts for various AR/AK/HK/FN FAL among others to CA, or even folding stocks that fit rimfire guns.

The stupidity CYA over-application and FUD ensues until they see their smaller-scale competition doing it, then they join the bandwagon.

We've seen it within our own stores in CA from OLL/OLR and Bullet-Buttoned guns, to Single-Shot Exemption, etc. where "You'll go to jail" was their abrupt reply for a good while... only until they see they are losing out on ludicrous profits then that all melts away and in hindsight they act like they were the first to break the mold, discover the exception, and are now doing you a favor for allowing you to buy from them.

In a year's time, Cabela's will be shipping components, no doubt.

Frustrating in the mean-time.

.

[CALI-gula]

Thank you. Cabelas obviously wants to sell brass and bullets to CA. I’ve worked in Fortune 500 companies for most of my career and interacted with their legal departments heavily. And what they are is legal risk managers, it isn’t really competence per se but probabilities. By their reading of the law they probably feel that the burden of not selling “bullets” (component) or “cartridges” to prohibited persons is on them. Is CA going to tell them it’s not? No way. Many other vendors are probably going to think the same way.

Exactly. Until they see they are missing out and other smaller, bolder, braver mail-order suppliers are cashing in.

.

[Jimmy's]

It's funny to read that people believe the state of california helps keep gun related businesses on the map. The truth is obvious.