How do you train at a Restrictive Range

[ChuckDizzle]

It is still pointless, even if you are extremely careful to keep your hands away from the muzzle (which you definitely do nor 100% of the time).

I've reloaded my semi auto defensive pistols thousands of times. I've never once had a pistol close home and fail to pick up a round. If there ever was a problem such as a failure to pick up a round I could feel the difference, racking an empty pistol feels very very different than loading a round.

If you aren't confident enough in your weapon to know it loaded a round you need a new gun.

Press checks are simply a fidgety tacticool thing to do that has more to do with the insecurity of the operator than the effectiveness of the practice or tool.

I'll start press checking the first time I ever think I loaded a round and I didn't.

Edit: and a press check does not confirm a weapon is "not hot." That's dangerous. The only way to confirm a weapon is not hot is to visually and physically inspect the chamber. I once picked up a live .22 rifle a friend though was unloaded because he only visually inspected the chamber, the round had failed to extract, and he didn't notice because he just saw black on his "press check."

Fortunately my military training about physical inspection kept his kitchen window and our ears intact.

[Malthusian]

Edit: and a press check does not confirm a weapon is "not hot." That's dangerous. The only way to confirm a weapon is not hot is to visually and physically inspect the chamber. I once picked up a live .22 rifle a friend though was unloaded because he only visually inspected the chamber, the round had failed to extract, and he didn't notice because he just saw black on his "press check."

Fortunately my military training about physical inspection kept his kitchen window and our ears intact.

Yes absolutely right, the ejector could have broken, or the cartridge rim ripped and the round is still in the chamber

Not a valid statement, it is not an indication the weapon is safe. Press check is also a safety blanket, that is probably not necessary. I still tend to do it

With AR's, there is no press check, it just causes problems

Good Point

[Malthusian]

It is still pointless, even if you are extremely careful to keep your hands away from the muzzle (which you definitely do nor 100% of the time).

I've reloaded my semi auto defensive pistols thousands of times. I've never once had a pistol close home and fail to pick up a round.

If your magazine is not seated correctly you will fail to pick up a round. If you are of the skillset to notice. I tip my hat to you

I am being reprimanded for practicing with loaded magazines, I do not see an issue with that. Mag changes are the most common issue under stress

At my indoor range, I modify my mag changes, so as not to point up. I am not getting proper repetitions. In real life I would be pointing the gun upwards (generally)

[omega]

new shooters

Thanks Guncraft, that article was short and simple but filled with good info. Will definitely incorporate all of those into my next range trips.

I understand that basic fundamentals are very different from what I am asking about, only reason I asked that question is because I'm not the greatest teacher and would love to see what has worked for you guys when bringing newbies to the range. It can never hurt to relearn the basic fundamentals again and again in my opinion along with tricks like balancing an empty casing on the slide while dry firing to make sure the gun doesn't move after you press it.

Definitely doing dry fire practice at home, I agree it is a great efficient way to practice and has helped me tremendously, also whenever I bring a new person to the range, I don't let them go live until they dry fire for a few minutes and get comfortable with the functions and how to clear the weapon on their own. But at the end of the day dry fire is dry fire and it is NOT the same as shooting with live rounds.

Thanks for the responses very helpful, i luv u all.

when introducing a new person to firearms they should spend a whole day just learning about firearms safety, and familiarize themselves with the firearms before ever going to the range.

they need to learn how the the gun functions, and how to hold it and aim it, clear it correctly before using live ammunition.

even showing them the basic field stripping before actually firing it

bringing a new shooter to the range and just letting them pull the trigger is a bad idea without some type of safety lesson.

[TexasJackKin]

Start shooting USPSA matches, great practice, consists of all the things you want to practice, along with a bit of match pressure. It has made me a much better shooter, and they are a great bunch of folks.

[IVC]

I've reloaded my semi auto defensive pistols thousands of times. I've never once had a pistol close home and fail to pick up a round. If there ever was a problem such as a failure to pick up a round I could feel the difference, racking an empty pistol feels very very different than loading a round.

In competition you are dealing with all sorts of issues at the same time and the "feel" can deceive you.

Here are the things I've done in my early matches, in no particular order:
- Tried to unload while magazine was still in the well, thus loading a new round. Then, doing it again as if I was clearing a malfunction (reflex).
- ND (in safe direction) on a draw, while prepping the trigger during the arm extension phase (looks like a very fast draw, but I know I didn't intend to press it *yet*).
- ND (in safe direction) after finishing the course of fire as I was about to get my finger out of the trigger guard (looked like an "insurance round," but I know I didn't intend to fire it) - the tension of the run had my trigger finger "ready" even as I was about to finish.
- Reload, pull the trigger, have magazine fall out (didn't slam it hard enough).
- Break 180 (very slightly) without getting DQ-ed.
- Almost sweep my hand while opening a door during the course of fire.
- Keep trigger finger in the guard (late to pull it out) on the move without getting DQ-ed.
- Tried to fire a longer shot as my thumb inadvertently engaged the toggle safety.
- Tried to draw the gun out of locked holster (that one looks really silly).
- During dry fire at home, try to draw only to have the gun fall on the ground because it wasn't correctly seated in the holster.
- Skip a magazine pouch during reload, then think that I ran out of them before I finished the course.

The point is that I know all of the above rules and while I am very proficient with them, in the heat of the moment, when thinking about how to move quickly and shoot even quicker, sometimes fine motor skills will betray you, especially as you are building match experience.

That's why having a *complete* protocol as part of a muscle memory is critical. It is what you'll revert to under stress. Checking that the round is in the chamber is one of the "automatic tests" I do.

There is no right or wrong answer here.

[The Gleam]

Agreed, thats how my youngest brother shot himself in the hand.

He was doing it wrong.

[ChuckDizzle]

In competition you are dealing with all sorts of issues at the same time and the "feel" can deceive you.

Here are the things I've done in my early matches, in no particular order:
- Tried to unload while magazine was still in the well, thus loading a new round. Then, doing it again as if I was clearing a malfunction (reflex).
- ND (in safe direction) on a draw, while prepping the trigger during the arm extension phase (looks like a very fast draw, but I know I didn't intend to press it *yet*).
- ND (in safe direction) after finishing the course of fire as I was about to get my finger out of the trigger guard (looked like an "insurance round," but I know I didn't intend to fire it) - the tension of the run had my trigger finger "ready" even as I was about to finish.
- Reload, pull the trigger, have magazine fall out (didn't slam it hard enough).
- Break 180 (very slightly) without getting DQ-ed.
- Almost sweep my hand while opening a door during the course of fire.
- Keep trigger finger in the guard (late to pull it out) on the move without getting DQ-ed.
- Tried to fire a longer shot as my thumb inadvertently engaged the toggle safety.
- Tried to draw the gun out of locked holster (that one looks really silly).
- During dry fire at home, try to draw only to have the gun fall on the ground because it wasn't correctly seated in the holster.
- Skip a magazine pouch during reload, then think that I ran out of them before I finished the course.

The point is that I know all of the above rules and while I am very proficient with them, in the heat of the moment, when thinking about how to move quickly and shoot even quicker, sometimes fine motor skills will betray you, especially as you are building match experience.

That's why having a *complete* protocol as part of a muscle memory is critical. It is what you'll revert to under stress. Checking that the round is in the chamber is one of the "automatic tests" I do.

There is no right or wrong answer here.

If you can mess up all those things what makes you think you can't mess up a press check? And again a press check would not have remedied any of those situations. I can see you never once thought you loaded a round in the chamber when you didn't. If you had you would have simply mentioned it as the case for the press check without listing a bunch of unrelated mistakes you made when trying to go too fast.

I don't think this is a subjective matter of opinion. The odds if someone thinking they loaded a round but not doing so are infinitesimally small it would seem given that it's never happened to you, me, or anyone else I know for that matter.

It's far easier and natural to give a quick extra bump on the bottom of the mag to make sure it is seated than it is to execute a fine motor skill movement of a press check. If under stress it's more efficient to simply have the gun go click and then tap rack bang than it is to press check and do the same thing. If not under stress you should know after one range trip the sound and feel of a round being chambered.

It's just another way to masturbate your gun, there's no logical or effective reason to do it, ever.

[ChuckDizzle]

He was doing it wrong.

Yeah, he was doing a press check, which is wrong.

[Malthusian]

Typically a press check is done, when loading and make ready just before holstering. It doesn't hurt to have the added security. In a gunfight, the first shot is usually the most important shot

Once the shot timer goes off, you revert to banging the magazine in, Slingshot vs slide stop (release) etc

I have thrown perfectly good magazines in the air, missing the magwell

I do not press check, unless there is a lull in the gunfight and I have a chance to hide behind cover and do a tactical reload. If it clicks, tap rack. It that is not the solution, I may pull out my BUG and continue with that, or deal with either a double feed or catastrophic malfunction, which would move me over to my BUG anyways

I am a defensive shooter, not a competition shooter. Same rules, different Stategy

[Scratch705]

Yeah, he was doing a press check, which is wrong.

no, he was stupid and put his hand in front of a loaded gun, which is wrong.

press checks are done with the hands out of the way of the muzzle when done correctly.

he broke rule #2 of safe gun handling.

just because your brother can't do it right, doesn't mean others can't either.

[Malthusian]

no, he was stupid and put his hand in front of a loaded gun, which is wrong.

press checks are done with the hands out of the way of the muzzle when done correctly.

he broke rule #2 of safe gun handling.

just because your brother can't do it right, doesn't mean others can't either.

Other than this thread, I have never heard of anybody shooting themselves doing a proper press check

Two rules were broken (technically three)

[dwalker]

My brother shot himself in the hand by doing a "press check" by placing his left palm over the slide, gripping with his thumb and forefinger and pushing back on the slide. He had his finger on the trigger to the rear and when the slide came forward into battery the gun functioned as advertised. Had he had been doing this on a full sized gun he might have just shot a hole in the furniture. However, this was on an Astra A-70 Compact and his palm was hanging over the end of the muzzle, which resulted the Silvertip tearing a circular chunk out of the meaty part of his hand and a trip to the emergency room was necessary.
He no longer press checks, and he no longer puts his finger on the bangswitch when he is not actually aimed at a target. Not sure why he had the trigger to the rear on a cocked and loaded SA firearm, which is just stupid. However, if he had done the same chamber check by pinching the slide from the rear and opening it slightly, then he would have learned just one lesson.

I shoot a lot of competition and I do not press check after load and make ready. My exact procedure on load and make ready loaded start is to maybe take a sight picture, insert mag, slap the baseplate to ensure it is seated, pull slide back, let slide go forward, rotate my wrist so the RO has a clear view of the safety, click it on, and holster the gun listening and feeling for the "click" of the retention. The only possible deviation from this is if I feel like something went wrong as the round is chambered, and then I will visually check the slide is in battery, if not I tap it forward with the heel of my palm. If it does not go into battery I inform the RO, drop the mag, rack out the round, and go from there.
I cannot recall ever having seen anyone start with a round not in the chamber thinking that one had chambered in the pistol. I have seen (and experienced) occasions where the first round is light strike, or high primer which causes a Failure to go Bang causing the shooter to have to rack another round in.
I have seen (but not experienced) shooters who do not seat thier AR mag which causes not just a round to not be chambered but often times the mag to fall out. I think this is because instead of starting with an open bolt, inserting mag, and hitting the bolt release they insert mag on a closed bolt, then rack the round in. Obviously the problem is a full mag often will not seat solidly on a closed bolt, which is why we download, and so when the charging handle is worked the mag is pushed down and no round is jacked in. Since the mag is lose when you rip the charge handle back the mag just falls right out. I have noticed people who tend to load on a closed bolt download a couple of rounds, slap the crap out of the mag to seat it, run the charge handle then pull back the charge handle slightly to make sure a round chambered. I personally think that is stupid, because there is a chance a partially opened bolt ill not go into battery causing at best a click no bang or at worst an out of battery discharge.

Either way I do not do them, but dont care if others do.

[Malthusian]

Some firearms do not always lock back

Many, many times, shooters will tactical reload an empty gun and Holster

On next course of fire. Shooter is allowed to draw and make ready before, most do not

They tend to be the ones who have the empty chamber

For AR's

We run two rounds less than mag capacity to alleviate the seating issue

I have been told the bullet button is part of the issue and that shaving a little off the mag catch will help.

When prone you can just push the weight of the AR on the mag to get it to seat as you fire off a round. Yes it happens more with a closed bolt than an open bolt

Press check on an AR is to pull the mag and verify the next round is on the left, that's why you always load an even number of rounds

If you pull the charging handle, you risk not going into battery and need to rely on the forward assist

I don't do that much AR shooting, more of a pistola kinda guy. But I do pay attention and I have used the weight of the rifle whislt on the clock to seat the mag

I do pull the mag to verify I am a round down and insert and "tug" the magazine

[dwalker]

On next course of fire. Shooter is allowed to draw and make ready before, most do not

They tend to be the ones who have the empty chamber

I do not play timmy tactical games. I actually strongly avoid such crowds as I have no desire to gain any unintentional holes because someone was walking from one "course of fire" to another and decided to check thier "empty" gun.

When I finish a stage we do unload show clear. If I hot holster the gun during a stage and run dry it's because I ducked up my stage plan and deserve what I get.