FN discontinues the High Power Pistol?

[Flogger23m]

With over 50 countries, it may be the most widely used military pistol in history.


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Going by Wikipedia (which may be incorrect) it is closer to 100 countries. But that is likely including police to. Until the mid 80s, the Hi Power was the pistol of choice for most of the world, unless you were under the Iron Curtain. And most European countries are only now retiring in. British only replaced it with the Glock 17 two or so years back.

Ironically, the French never made it standard issue. They went with a single stack pistol, and now issue the Beretta 92 for standard issue.

[tsnoforn]

Going by Wikipedia (which may be incorrect) it is closer to 100 countries. But that is likely including police to. Until the mid 80s, the Hi Power was the pistol of choice for most of the world, unless you were under the Iron Curtain. And most European countries are only now retiring in. British only replaced it with the Glock 17 two or so years back.



Ironically, the French never made it standard issue. They went with a single stack pistol, and now issue the Beretta 92 for standard issue.

Prince Harry and his Hi Power, in the desert (another environment where I would choose a hi power over any other still today)




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[Che762x39]

Let's be real about this. It's an obsolete handgun, that has never really been updated and improved upon like the 1911. Nobody is busting down the door to buy them anymore.

Thanks to Jeff Cooper and his followers we have the 1911 platform as we do now.

[Lonestargrizzly]

Prince Harry and his Hi Power, in the desert (another environment where I would choose a hi power over any other still today)




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F'n stud.

[stormvet]

Thanks to Jeff Cooper and his followers we have the 1911 platform as we do now.

We also can thank Bill Clinton and the 1994 AWB, it put the 7/8 round 1911 back on the map. As people thought, I'd rether have 8 rounds of 45 then 10 rounds of 9mm. It was after that that the rebirth of the 1911 really hit its stride.

Harry does look like a bada** in that pic. Pip pip cherrio, lets kill some terrorist today mates.

[tsnoforn]

Thanks to Jeff Cooper and his followers we have the 1911 platform as we do now.

Well, all the improvements to the 1911 almost make it not obsolete as the hi power but it still is heavy.

Other than the weight, the 1911 and the Hi Power are still to this day better pistols... just not cheap enough for governments to buy and support.

However, much like 6 rounds of .357 magnum, I like my chances in the real world with 8 rounds of .45 ACP every bit as much as 18 rounds of 9mm (and I live in a free state so I have 15 round mags for carry and 17 round Glock mags for the 19 at home)

Really, it's about the money and the weight. The Sig and the Glock are cheap and they work and they are light and small. It is the only thing making them "better"

It is the way of things, though. I have a Sig Legion, a Glock 19, a 1911A1 and a Hi Power (well, and a dozen other handguns) My friends have asked me what I am doing with the guns in my will :-)...

But they all only care about 2 of the military pistols :-). The Sig and the Glock can get sold on Armslist to buy beer for my wake :-)


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[tsnoforn]

But isn't the generational perspective what it all comes down to. The reason that it is being discontinued is because the generations alive today and buying guns, are not choosing the HP.



I'm always the first one to say, use what you like and do best with. Militaries, LE and the vast majority of civilians have decided that it's not the HP and it's been that way for a pretty long time.



I've had professional training wth handguns and carbines for over 30 years, military and LE. Ive also taken civilian training courses for handguns and carbines and not once have I had an instructor use or recommend a HP or a Garand for that matter.



Times change weapons improve, doesn't make the older ones bad or not a viable option. But it does mean less and less people will make it their option. When this happens long enough a manufacturer will have to decide if it's still worth it to make them, FN has decided it's not worth the cost.



Any serviceable handgun can be used for self defense as long as it is regularly trained with. The training and weapon I used 30 years ago does not mean as much to me as the training and weapon I used last week or last month.

Well yeah, but once again I will say, improved? The Navy Colt was great but the peacemaker was a quantum leap because of cartridge ammunition...

The new era of auto pistol is not such a quantum leap. Not at all.

I may not cut my fingers on it, but my Sig P238 is not as accurate as my Walther PPK. Action wise it's a toss up and the slide on the sig works easier... a toss-up. But the Sig is cheap and weighs nothing...

Glock vs. Hi Power. Not a competition. The Browning has a safety, points better, works better off hand and is more accurate. The Glock is cheap, weighs nothing, pops everytime I pull the trigger and the sights glow in the dark. Not quite a great improvement. But the glock was 450 bucks and has a finish baked on it that is hard to scrape off...

Legion vs. 1911... a harder choice but the heavier gun is more accurate and it's a .45... which has killed more American enemies than smallpox.

But purely for self defense, a revolver may still be the best choice. Today, in 2017.

The Glock, literally, is a rectangular plastic Browning Hi Power. Literally the same design.

I am not sold on better. Metal is tougher, safeties are safer, both the Hi Power and 1911 have killed way more people than the new designs and keep on clicking. Heck, I have a Hi Power that was carried by some poor German Paratroop, dragged across Europe by a GI, beaten into submission and stuffed in a duffel bag.

Yes, I maintain it well, but I will go toe to toe torture test with that ancient pistol rather than any new age alloy/plastic pop gun. Shoot until ftf, and I promise that Hi Power will win.

Indeed the metal gun day is over... but the reason people and governments choose the more modern designs is price, ergonomics and weight. I can't think of one thing on my Sig Legion or my Glock that I like more than the stuff on my metal guns.

Now, granted, I carry a Sig as my EDC. But it's because of size, weight, ease of concealment and when I scratch them I could care less because they are cheap, disposable consumer products. Because they are not more accurate, more reliable, more durable, not as finely triggered nor more proven deadly than my metal guns.


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[tsnoforn]

Sorry, one last thing. Your instructors don't use Hi Powers because its an American thing. Noone in the US uses a Hi Power. It's more expensive than a Colt out of the box! Everyone else in the world uses Hi Powers and is just now making the switch to the cheaper guns.

The Garand is an anachronism (albeit a magnificent one). A metal pistol can hold its own against a more modern design.

I grew to love it while working with British allies. And the SAS instructors, the guys who invented modern close quarters combat, use Hi Powers.

An in the box Hi-Power is a $1200 gun, not exactly something most police forces will dole out.


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[tsnoforn]

I need to stop reading this thread, I feel like spending money...

Turby

Don't spend a lot, get a battered Israeli surplus Hi Power for 500 bucks. It will,shoot until you have a long grey beard.


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[tsnoforn]

Nighthawk quoted me $2500 to work over mine.. yikes! lol

I bet you're glad you didn't do it. In a few years that Belgian Browning will be worth real dough and it won't have been screwed up by some pistol tuner.

Something I just have never got is the 3000 dollar pistol tune. If it's not good why spend 3000 to have some guy break it? I would just buy a gun that works better.

Cylinder and Slide are the Browning customizer deluxe. But frankly, to me, nothing could match the beauty and function of that piece you have.


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[LowThudd]

We also can thank Bill Clinton and the 1994 AWB, it put the 7/8 round 1911 back on the map. As people thought, I'd rether have 8 rounds of 45 then 10 rounds of 9mm. It was after that that the rebirth of the 1911 really hit its stride.

Harry does look like a bada** in that pic. Pip pip cherrio, lets kill some terrorist today mates.

Honestly, the 1911 resurgence came from a couple places. But one, which is often overlooked these days, was Kimber Custom. Previous to that, the only on the shelf 1911s with beavertail grip safeties, improved sights, match barrels and light weight target triggers were Wilson combat and the like. Even Colt Gold Cup NM still had a standard grip safety, and needed to go right to the smith to get fit. Kimber came out with the most popular mods for $600 out the door. And *Usually* they ran fine. lol.

There is also the use of 1911s in popular movies, Tarantino movies as well as Hong Kong action movies.

But yea, the ban probably did have something to do with it also.

[tsnoforn]

Well, not,as nice as mine... but nice :-)

Sadly my favorite folder and my wristwatch are as old as that pistol. i wonder if I should throw my watch out for,a polymer design.

I mean, a lot of guys don't wear Rolexes,anymore because they are heavy, right.




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[elSquid]

I mean, a lot of guys don't wear Rolexes,anymore because they are heavy, right.

Rolexes are expensive to purchase and service, and are less durable, less functional, and don't keep time as well as a $50 G-Shock.

Now, nothing wrong with enjoying the anachronistic - I own a bunch of mechanical watches myself - but improvements occur and the world moves on.



-- Michael

[stormvet]

Honestly, the 1911 resurgence came from a couple places. But one, which is often overlooked these days, was Kimber Custom. Previous to that, the only on the shelf 1911s with beavertail grip safeties, improved sights, match barrels and light weight target triggers were Wilson combat and the like. Even Colt Gold Cup NM still had a standard grip safety, and needed to go right to the smith to get fit. Kimber came out with the most popular mods for $600 out the door. And *Usually* they ran fine. lol.

There is also the use of 1911s in popular movies, Tarantino movies as well as Hong Kong action movies.

But yea, the ban probably did have something to do with it also.

I'm with you on that, Kimber really started it all. Everyone else had to play catchup. They put the gunsmith goodies on the gun at the factory, and sold it at a affordable price. Really pissed Bill Wilson off and forced other manufacturers to improve and increase their 1911 line ups. One hell of an accomplishment, went from this little custom gun shop that was known for rifles into the number one seller of 1911 pistols in less then 10 years. The whole of the 1911 community today is what it is because they pushed the envelope.

[Lonestargrizzly]

I'm with you on that, Kimber really started it all. Everyone else had to play catchup. They put the gunsmith goodies on the gun at the factory, and sold it at a affordable price. Really pissed Bill Wilson off and forced other manufacturers to improve and increase their 1911 line ups. One hell of an accomplishment, went from this little custom gun shop that was known for rifles into the number one seller of 1911 pistols in less then 10 years. The whole of the 1911 community today is what it is because they pushed the envelope.

And now everyone trashes them