Can not complete PPT without a bullet button on your Stripped Lower.

[donbing]

River City

It's Don at River City. As many of you know, I don't participate in the discussions much but since I was directly involved in this transaction, I'll throw in my side.

I was that "second employee" as mentioned by the OP. The counter guys come to me when they have questions. We're OK with doing OLL transfers IF there's a Bullet Button with it. If that's too much to ask then there's always other FFL dealers to work with. Stripped receivers are outside of our comfort zone as we want to have some kind of documentation to show that we aren't just taking our AWs and selling them to the public. I've been subpeonaed more than once to testify or identify items in court and it isn't my idea of a productive day. We want to have something to stand on when someone gets nailed with an 'illegal build' and then says 'that's how I bought it'.

In regards to the OP and his PPT, I told them both that I'd be willing to transfer their lower as long as it had a bullet button. I also explained to them that while the transfer of the lower itself was perfectly legal, it was the shop requirement/rules that the BB be included with the purchase and written as such on the invoice. They had ample opportunity to opt out and do the transfer at another FFL that didn't have this requirement.

And yes, PPT are $25 dros + $10 fee = $35.

DON

[TenSeven]

...it was the shop requirement/rules that the BB be included with the purchase and written as such on the invoice...

That does not seem unreasonable. Sounds like a good CYA for both the shop and the buyer.

[scootergmc]

It's not unreasonable. Especially when he's got an AW permit and tries very hard to keep that in order.

[bohoki]

but what if it is a build with a 22 upper?

if he says "that is the way i bought it" its a lie because he bought a lower without an upper

that would be like someone buying a mini 14 and putting on a flashhider and say thats how i bought it its the same lie something was added that was not there when it passed through the ffl

[donbing]

but what if it is a build with a 22 upper?

if he says "that is the way i bought it" its a lie because he bought a lower without an upper

that would be like someone buying a mini 14 and putting on a flashhider and say thats how i bought it its the same lie something was added that was not there when it passed through the ffl

We write it up as a 'receiver, stripped', no caliber is noted as it doesn't have an upper. I'm just interested in covering the shop (and my) liability, so hence the bullet button requirement. Sure, it you could tell me all day long that it's going to be a .22lr build, but it doesn't mean that it will always stay a .22lr build. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a large proportion of those who have a .22lr upper probably owns at least one other upper in a centerfire chambering.

I don't want to be 65 years old (year 2031), retired and living in another state and be getting the subpeona from the Superior Court of Sacramento County 'You are hearby required to appear...'just because somebody told me in 2009 that 'it's only going to be mated to a .22lr upper...I promise!

Sure, people can take just about anything and make it illegal, and that's not just guns. It only makes sense that we try to take reasonable precautions to protect ourselves.

Don

[rg_1111@yahoo.com]

Just a Question. Would a MMG or SRB work the same as Bullet Button? Or would the have to buy a BB?

[donbing]

Just a Question. Would a MMG or SRB work the same as Bullet Button? Or would the have to buy a BB?

Good question. Not sure what a SRB is but I'd still require a BB even with a MM (I know, flame on!) just so we could be covered if the featureless built somehow, someway ended up with a PG or FH or CS/FS. How's that for code?

[shirow]

Don, I applaud you for posting your side of the story here. I think it's great when vendors participate here.

Have you ever thought about becoming a calguns sponsor and having your own forum in the vendor section?

I'd love to see frequent updates on what you guys have on sale, on consignment, new shipments in stock, etc. On the other hand I would be quite poor from spending all my money at your store.

[technique]

RCGE has been good to me everytime I have gone.

Try JK supply in Ione next time...Worth the trip.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I am not sure how a Bullet Button would stop you from getting subpoenaed. How do you note a Bullet Button was brought in with the receiver? Why couldn't you logging it in to your bound book as a receiver suffice?

Better yet, e-mail me and I will send you a copy of my lowers agreement and you can yank my name off of it and put your name on it. Basically it lists out the laws and states the firearm was delivered in a CA compliant manner and the customer signs it and gets a copy and you keep a copy.

guns@tenpercentfirearms.com

I do agree 100% this is your call and people certainly can choose to take their business elsewhere due to this policy. The question is, why would you want them to when you can still protect yourself and them in a much better fashion?

[donbing]

Always room for improvement

I am not sure how a Bullet Button would stop you from getting subpoenaed. How do you note a Bullet Button was brought in with the receiver? Why couldn't you logging it in to your bound book as a receiver suffice?

Better yet, e-mail me and I will send you a copy of my lowers agreement and you can yank my name off of it and put your name on it. Basically it lists out the laws and states the firearm was delivered in a CA compliant manner and the customer signs it and gets a copy and you keep a copy.

guns@tenpercentfirearms.com

I do agree 100% this is your call and people certainly can choose to take their business elsewhere due to this policy. The question is, why would you want them to when you can still protect yourself and them in a much better fashion?

Thank you Ten Percent. I will take you up on the offer, expect a pm from me shortly.

It's logged as a receiver in the bound book as well but it's a lot easier to explain and show the suits an invoice instead of the book. We write "BB equipped' right on the invoice along with the pertinent firearm info and of course the purchaser gets to sign the document too. I'll agree it wouldn't slow down the letters from the almighty but it makes things an easier go to present an invoice with notations, then back it with the local PD's info bulletin explaining the BB and it's applications.

If we can come up with a better way to CYA, I'll definitely consider it!

[Shane916]

RCGE is the best FFL in Sac and Don is truly a class act.

I find it to be a very reasonable request that he makes when transferring such items.

[rainman8819]

RCGE

I've been going to RCGE for many years and I've always had good dealings with the staff. I don't want anyone to think any different because of the OLL situation. I myself don't own one, but if I do decide to pursue it, I'm heading to RCGE. Thanks Don for a great shop. I just wish I lived a little closer to the store. All though, driving from Citrus Heights isn't that far, I just have gotten more lazy as I've gotten older. Thanks again.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Don did e-mail me and I sent him a copy of our lowers agreement. Hopefully for you consumers we can see a good policy come out of this that will benefit everyone. Nice job.

[JDay]

I don't see how a BB can CYA, what if they installed a >10 round magazine?