Ar 15 jamming problems UPDATE! found the problem! ss media users should read this!

[LeadFarmer74]

Sure thing

I pulled some of the bullets giving me trouble, half the powder would not come out. Had to use a small nail to get the rest out. It was wet.

The cause of the problem was that I didn't dry the brass well enough.

So these problematic reloads never fully ignited? Do you deprime before or after you clean your cases? Some people put the brass in the oven on low for 10-20 mins to dry quicker.

[ziconceo]

So these problematic reloads never fully ignited? Do you deprime before or after you clean your cases? Some people put the brass in the oven on low for 10-20 mins to dry quicker.

Correct.

I de-prime after I clean them

I put my brass in a cooking pot and left it on the gas stove for about 3 minutes. It looked like all of the water was gone but it actually re condensed I guess...

[LeadFarmer74]

I have noticed the 223/556 primers can hold water. I deprime before cleaning for that reason or let it sit awhile. Noticed it first with 9mm, took about 3 or so days for all the water to dry around the primer pocket. Try depriming right after your current method and I bet there will be water.

[Jimi Jah]

IMR 4064 is about the worst powder for a .223. Better is 335, 322 is faster burning and never leaves unburnt powder. Varget is also good to go.

[Calico1404]

Okay I plugged the chamber and blew through the front of the barrel with one of those keyboard cleaner air cans. Air came through fine. It was cold so I took my finger out of the chamber and a bunch of un-burnt powder came out. I believe that is my problem!

It makes sense because there are no marks on the brass.

My load for the ammo is:

55gr fmj
22.5 imr4064

Its kinda odd that this wasn't a problem before.... but I'm not sure what to do about this. Cause now I have to shoot 140 rounds of this jam inducing ammo....

[IMG][/IMG]

You can see loose grain in your chamber.

[ziconceo]

You can see loose grain in your chamber.

Right, those loose grains were caused by the powder being wet.

[JDay]

Correct.

I de-prime after I clean them

I put my brass in a cooking pot and left it on the gas stove for about 3 minutes. It looked like all of the water was gone but it actually re condensed I guess...

If you deprime first you'll get clean primer pockets.

[Lucky Scott]

"My load for the ammo is:

55gr fmj
22.5 imr4064"

I also load my 223 with imp 4064. I had a few pounds left over from loading my 7mm rem mag and it works very well. I think 22.5 gr. is a very light load. I load 24 gr.

[ar15barrels]

UPDATE! I found the true problem! It was my brass cleaning process that caused this!!!!

I recently got into stainless steel media. I guess my drying technique wasn't good enough and it left a layer of water around the inside of the brass. when I fired the tainted rounds, the center of the powder ignited, but there was a ring of wet powder around the edges!

That's the craziest theory I have heard in a long time.
You think the wet powder survived a 5600 degree and 50,000 psi environment without drying out?

[ziconceo]

That's the craziest theory I have heard in a long time.
You think the wet powder survived a 5600 degree and 50,000 psi environment without drying out?

Yep, it's only for a split second so why not, I just loaded the same load but with verified dry brass. It was a non issue.

[sl0re10]

If your wondering 'how'...Unburned powder collects in the gun and causes it to jam. You cant just crush it to dust with the amount of force available. Eventually the bolt has trouble moving.

[sl0re10]

With other rounds (than 233) you can see this with reloading when your recipe is leaving unburned powder.

[ar15barrels]

The problem is not moisture.
The problem is LOW PRESSURE leaving unburned powder.

Cartridge          : .223 Rem.
Bullet             : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 26.528 grain H2O = 1.722 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064
Charge             : 22.5 grains = 1.46 grams

Estimates of the progress of combustion:
   NR.:   x(in.)     Z(%)    v(fps)   p(psi)    t (ms)

     0    0.00000    1.48      0.0      3626    0.0000
<snipped>
    40    1.39146   32.80    916.1     34489    0.3688
    41    1.42792   33.32    930.7     34506    0.3721
    42    1.46704   33.88    946.1     34515    0.3755
    43    1.50897   34.46    962.4     34514    0.3792
    44    1.60739   35.80    999.5     34476    0.3876
<snipped>
    70   14.47539   80.00   2507.5     11145    0.9517
 Muzzle

Your load is only burning 80% of the powder in a 16" barrel before the bullet leaves the barrel.
That leaves 20% of the powder UNBURNED.
The unburned powder will be down the barrel and in the chamber after the case is extracted.

Going to a 20" barrel gets you 83% of the powder burned:

Cartridge          : .223 Rem.
Bullet             : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 26.528 grain H2O = 1.722 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064
Charge             : 22.5 grains = 1.46 grams

Estimates of the progress of combustion:
   NR.:   x(in.)     Z(%)    v(fps)   p(psi)    t (ms)

     0    0.00000    1.48      0.0      3626    0.0000
<snipped>
    40    1.39146   32.80    916.1     34489    0.3688
    41    1.42792   33.32    930.7     34506    0.3721
    42    1.46704   33.88    946.1     34515    0.3755
    43    1.50897   34.46    962.4     34514    0.3792
    44    1.60739   35.80    999.5     34476    0.3876
<snipped>
    72   18.47559   83.24   2668.4      8918    1.0804
 Muzzle

If you want to run a stick powder, IMR4198 would be MUCH more appropriate:

Cartridge          : .223 Rem.
Bullet             : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 26.528 grain H2O = 1.722 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 4198
Charge             : 22.0 grains = 1.43 grams

Estimates of the progress of combustion:
   NR.:   x(in.)     Z(%)    v(fps)   p(psi)    t (ms)

     0    0.00000    1.55      0.0      3626    0.0000
<snipped>
    38    1.19764   52.08   1082.6     57910    0.2932
    39    1.26063   53.67   1118.3     58022    0.2979
    40    1.29455   54.51   1137.2     58056    0.3005
    41    1.31278   54.95   1147.1     58066    0.3018
    42    1.33234   55.42   1157.8     58072    0.3032
    43    1.35330   55.92   1169.0     58071    0.3047
    44    1.40786   57.19   1197.9     58045    0.3085
    45    1.40786   57.20   1197.9     58045    0.3085
    46    1.50624   59.31   1246.4     57819    0.3152
<snipped>
    87   14.47538   99.83   3017.9     12719    0.7733
 Muzzle

Notice that you would have 99.8% of powder burned in a 16" barrel with that load running 58,072 PSI.

[ziconceo]

If your wondering 'how'...Unburned powder collects in the gun and causes it to jam. You cant just crush it to dust with the amount of force available. Eventually the bolt has trouble moving.

Its not the bolt causing the jam, its powder in the chamber which the brass is pressing against.

The problem is not moisture.
The problem is LOW PRESSURE leaving unburned powder.

Cartridge          : .223 Rem.
Bullet             : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 26.528 grain H2O = 1.722 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064
Charge             : 22.5 grains = 1.46 grams

Estimates of the progress of combustion:
   NR.:   x(in.)     Z(%)    v(fps)   p(psi)    t (ms)

     0    0.00000    1.48      0.0      3626    0.0000
<snipped>
    40    1.39146   32.80    916.1     34489    0.3688
    41    1.42792   33.32    930.7     34506    0.3721
    42    1.46704   33.88    946.1     34515    0.3755
    43    1.50897   34.46    962.4     34514    0.3792
    44    1.60739   35.80    999.5     34476    0.3876
<snipped>
    70   14.47539   80.00   2507.5     11145    0.9517
 Muzzle

Your load is only burning 80% of the powder in a 16" barrel before the bullet leaves the barrel.
That leaves 20% of the powder UNBURNED.
The unburned powder will be down the barrel and in the chamber after the case is extracted.

Going to a 20" barrel gets you 83% of the powder burned:

Cartridge          : .223 Rem.
Bullet             : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 26.528 grain H2O = 1.722 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064
Charge             : 22.5 grains = 1.46 grams

Estimates of the progress of combustion:
   NR.:   x(in.)     Z(%)    v(fps)   p(psi)    t (ms)

     0    0.00000    1.48      0.0      3626    0.0000
<snipped>
    40    1.39146   32.80    916.1     34489    0.3688
    41    1.42792   33.32    930.7     34506    0.3721
    42    1.46704   33.88    946.1     34515    0.3755
    43    1.50897   34.46    962.4     34514    0.3792
    44    1.60739   35.80    999.5     34476    0.3876
<snipped>
    72   18.47559   83.24   2668.4      8918    1.0804
 Muzzle

If you want to run a stick powder, IMR4198 would be MUCH more appropriate:

Cartridge          : .223 Rem.
Bullet             : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 26.528 grain H2O = 1.722 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 4198
Charge             : 22.0 grains = 1.43 grams

Estimates of the progress of combustion:
   NR.:   x(in.)     Z(%)    v(fps)   p(psi)    t (ms)

     0    0.00000    1.55      0.0      3626    0.0000
<snipped>
    38    1.19764   52.08   1082.6     57910    0.2932
    39    1.26063   53.67   1118.3     58022    0.2979
    40    1.29455   54.51   1137.2     58056    0.3005
    41    1.31278   54.95   1147.1     58066    0.3018
    42    1.33234   55.42   1157.8     58072    0.3032
    43    1.35330   55.92   1169.0     58071    0.3047
    44    1.40786   57.19   1197.9     58045    0.3085
    45    1.40786   57.20   1197.9     58045    0.3085
    46    1.50624   59.31   1246.4     57819    0.3152
<snipped>
    87   14.47538   99.83   3017.9     12719    0.7733
 Muzzle

Notice that you would have 99.8% of powder burned in a 16" barrel with that load running 58,072 PSI.

DANG! As much as I'd like to say that's wrong, I cant deny maths. I'll try to up my loads and see what comes of it

[tankarian]

i'm sticking to dry media now, powdered walnuts work just fine.

I use stainless steel pins media and the same thing happened to me when i switched from walnut to stainless pins. I was reloading .357 magnum and had lots of duds because of wet brass. So I learned my lesson.
Now I reload 300 Blackout, 308 Win, 38 SPL, 45 LC, 454 Casull and have no problem with the wet brass. It's simple: after tumbling, separate the brass from the media, put in in a large cardboard tray and leave it bask in the sun for a day.
Guaranteed no more problems.