Can we have a background check without registry?

[baekacaek]

I just came up with this now, so I dont know how much water it will hold. But what if we came up with a universal background check that is not enforced by registration?

I know the primary argument against universal background check, that without registration, you have no way of verifying if someone performed a background check when he/she sold the firearm to someone else via PPT. But what if we didn't verify it? What if we enforced it via undercover agents (with a fake ID that is flagged in the NICS) that goes around checking for sellers who make the illegal sale? (because if the seller did perform the background check, he/she will know that the undercover agent is not cleared to purchase a firearm). Could this work? Wouldn't the possibility of getting caught by not performing background checks force most law-abiding citizens to perform background checks when selling firearms?

[Cokebottle]

Been happening on every dealer sale since 1968
4473 is not "registration".
The paperwork does not leave the FFL until they quit the biz and let their license expire.
Then ALL of their 4473s are shipped to the BATFE who shoves them in a warehouse someplace.

[baekacaek]

Been happening on every dealer sale since 1968
4473 is not "registration".
The paperwork does not leave the FFL until they quit the biz and let their license expire.
Then ALL of their 4473s are shipped to the BATFE who shoves them in a warehouse someplace.

But not for PPTs in other states, right?

[Wordupmybrotha]

C'mon OP...

[CSACANNONEER]

But not for PPTs in other states, right?

Even if every PPT in the country had to go through a FFL and just a 4473 was filled out, there would not be any "registration" database. It sounds like you only know a combination of Federal law and CA law but, you don't know how the two differ.

[baekacaek]

It sounds like you only know a combination of Federal law and CA law but, you don't know how the two differ.

I may not, I've only become a gun owner in 2015. So please correct me if Im wrong.

As I understand it, in CA, when you purchase from a dealer, the dealer performs a background check on you and registers you for the serial number. When you purchase via PPT, you go thru an FFL and the FFL performs the background check on you and registers you.
In other states where background check is not required, you do not need to go thru FFL and do not need background checks for PPT. Is this not true?

Even if every PPT in the country had to go through a FFL and just a 4473 was filled out, there would not be any "registration" database.

Yea that was the point, to not have any "registration" database. Can we have a universal background check where all we are required to fill out is 4473?

[ojisan]

Been happening on every dealer sale since 1968
4473 is not "registration".
The paperwork does not leave the FFL until they quit the biz and let their license expire.
Then ALL of their 4473s are shipped to the BATFE who shoves them in a warehouse someplace.

Also every twenty years, the saved 4473s gets turned in.
Not many gun stores last that long, so lots of fairly current forms are collected.
Then, after several years in the ATF warehouse, the paper starts degrading and the forms become hard to read.
So about 15 years ago, ATF started scanning the old 4473s and saving them to a digital searchable database....voila! Registration!
After they had done a bunch, the story leaked out and they were told to stop doing that.
Whatever happened to the database they had already built is unknown to me.
There was talk of making them delete it but there were already back-up files etc so what was done is done.

[Cokebottle]

From 1968 until 1991, when a firearm was purchased in California, the dealer completed a 4473, ran a BG check, and filed the paperwork.
The state had no idea that you bought a gun.

In 1991, handgun registration became required.
The dealer completed the 4473 (Federal) ran the BG check, and filed the 4473.
They completed the DROS.
In the case of a handgun, this included the serial number of the gun, and established registration.
In the case of a long gun, the serial number was not given to the state.

Effective 2014, both handguns and long guns are treated the same in California.

I passed a background check on all of my long guns.
The only one that is "registered" is a Mossberg 500 that I bought last summer.


No, free state PPTs were handled the same as any sale of personal property that did not carry a "title" like a vehicle or property.
Free state dealer purchases have required the BG check, but are not "registered"

Forcing PPT to go through an FFL will not establish a registry.
What is being said is that without a registry, there is no way to track the passage of the gun from one owner to the next.

So yes, ultimately, Osama's BG plan will likely lead to a national registry if it is not quashed.

[GW]

If you purchase a gun. It is registered with the state of California.
Handguns since the 60's
Long guns as of 2015

[Cokebottle]

Handguns since the 60's

1991 for dealer sales
1998 for PPT

[ordc]

Politicians lie. . . for me, any background check = registration.

I was at the DMV to renew my license . . Anyways, I figured I also get my driving record. The law says they can only keep your record for the past 10 years. Anyways, I saw the computer screen. It had my driving record since the very beginning when I was a teen . . 20 years worth. I asked for all of that, she said something like no, we can only give you your record for the past 10 years because the law says we can only keep 10 years.

See where I am going with this?!

Amazing. . . . .

With computers . . . Oh yes . . . Background check = registration.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[OttoLoader]

Paper or electronic government record is the start to a registration database.

[Quiet]

If you purchase a gun. It is registered with the state of California.
Handguns since the 60's
Long guns as of 2015

1991 for dealer sales
1998 for PPT

In CA...
Dealer Record Of Sale (DROS)

08-07-1924 = DROS implemented for handgun sales by CA firearm dealers, DROS process registered the handguns with CA DOJ BOF.
01-01-1991 = all* firearm transfers to be done through a CA FFL dealer. *exemptions for intra-familial transfers and C&R long gun transfers.
01-01-1993 = intra-familial transfers of handguns are required to be reported.
01-01-1998 = new residents of CA are required to report all handguns they brought to CA.
01-01-1998 = CA residents that are C&R FFLs are required to report all C&R handguns they acquire outside of CA and bring into CA.
01-01-2014 = DROS process of long guns now registers them with CA DOJ BOF.
01-01-2014 = All mandatory reporting must now include long guns.

Before 1998 = DROS forms were mailed to CA DOJ BOF.
Starting 01-01-1996 = old paper DROS forms to be inputted into electronic firearm registration database.
Starting 01-01-1998 = DROS is submitted electronically and information automatically added to electronic firearm registration database.

[bbbppc]

Why can't we have access to a NICS type system? Maybe something we can enter information about the purchaser and get a pass fail response. No gun serial numbers. The seller could get a number issued for the backround check as proof of running it. This is of course for states that allow private party gun sales without an FFL. Hell they could make an app so you can do it from your phone.

[croc4]

in theory you could