iTrader feedback system

[billped]

This post is much ado about nothing. All other products suffer the same problem but none get this treatment. If a guy shows up to look at your used car and doesn't buy it, do you get upset?

I have bought several used guns, never backed out, but may do so one day.

All the more reason for the seller to dictate the forum. Make it convenient so that a one in ten, "sorry, not going to buy it," is as pain-free as possible.

Prices are already seller-driven, let's not transfer all power to the seller. Balance is critical.

[cdtx2001]

I say you leave negative feedback
Then send him a PM calling his mother a dirty name
Then petition the Mod Gods for him to be hit with the Banhammer
Then find out where he lives so you can break into his house and steal his favorite pair of under ware, so you can burn it on a Youtube video as a warning to all who dare not buy a gun from you.

Or you could just move on and not even let it bother you as flakes in the marketplace do exist.

I've dealt with plenty of flakes, I leave them no feedback because it isn't worth my time.

[erik_26]

As a buyer, you should make it clear you need to inspect the piece before purchase.

As a buyer, you should be prepared to kick down $10-20 depending on how accommodating the seller was to you in the event you back out. That $10-20 avoids these types of threads and risk of negative feedback.

More importantly, as a buyer, you should know with confidence what firearms you want, how they work, known issues and how it will fit you.

[Ronin2]

1) Only do business with buyers with established track records
2) If you take a chance (yes that's what you are doing) on an unrated buyer...make sure you negotiate for every outcome....especially if a long drive is involved.

As for this transaction, the buyer was indeed at fault. He didn't walk because the gun was not as advertised or represented, its because he didn't like the "feel of it". Its his responsibility to do his research on such things BEFORE commits to buy. Had there been a problem with the gun, that would have been another matter but there wasn't.

The buyer, CalGuns member BOLOGNA, was clearly at fault and lacks integrity and should have gotten negative feedback as far as I am concerned.

FYI.. a review of member BOLOGNA's 40 posts are all regarding items for sale. Not one general post about firearms/RTKBA/shooting!!!!

[meno377]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong sub-section for this.

I had a buyer commit to purchasing one of my handguns here on Calguns. We agreed on the logistics and met at the FFL on said date/time. After the buyer handled the handgun and dry fire few times, he tells me he no longer wants to purchase it as the handgun didn't feel right in his hand. I respond to him that I took the time and travel to meet him, and that he needs to visit the local gun dealers if he wanted to hold a certain firearm before making commitments to buy.

Does this call for a negative or neutral feedback?

Since this was a used, off roster M&P 9, I had no way of testing one locally prior to meeting. If this were a Shield for example, I would have test fired one and it would be a different story. Upon inspection, the firearm did not meet my expectations and I was just as disappointed if not more than the seller. Believe me, I wouldn't have taken the day off and made the 200 mile round trip if my intentions were to tire kick and circle jerk. I'm glad the seller was there for multiple PPT and not just for me. Looks like everything worked out on your end OP.

In sight of the response from the buyer and the fact that the particular gun was an off roster item, I believe the OP should take back the neutral feedback and let it be. Assuming both parties here are not hiding anything regarding this discussion, again both sides have lost gas money and time and it appears the buyer got the short end of the stick.

Like I said earlier, I think the OP (seller) was reasonable in asking the question, but the trip worked out for him either way.

[avcrew]

In my opinion, the iTrader rating is misleading,

It only facilitates positive feedback. Positive feedback for a buyer is normally only left after the buyer leaves the seller positive feedback. This way, "feedback retaliation" is not possible.

One has to think twice about leaving negative feedback for fear of "feedback retaliation". Then it becomes a war of he said, she said. People simply don't want to deal with it and would rather leave no feedback vs. negative feedback.

I made an offer for a gun that was listed and the seller accepted my offer. I made several attempts to communicate with the seller to do the transfer. Seller ignored me and I found out through iTrader, that he sold the gun to someone else.

No transaction occurred.
Does the seller deserve negative feedback? You betcha.
Did I leave negative feedback for the seller? No.
Why not? Seller will leave me negative feedback in return.
He said, she said.
Move on.

[toddh]

1) Only do business with buyers with established track records
2) If you take a chance (yes that's what you are doing) on an unrated buyer...make sure you negotiate for every outcome....especially if a long drive is involved.

As for this transaction, the buyer was indeed at fault. He didn't walk because the gun was not as advertised or represented, its because he didn't like the "feel of it". Its his responsibility to do his research on such things BEFORE commits to buy. Had there been a problem with the gun, that would have been another matter but there wasn't.

The buyer, CalGuns member BOLOGNA, was clearly at fault and lacks integrity and should have gotten negative feedback as far as I am concerned.

FYI.. a review of member BOLOGNA's 40 posts are all regarding items for sale. Not one general post about firearms/RTKBA/shooting!!!!

So in other words...

"Buy this item or else I'll do something bad to you."

And talk about being a dick...your fronting off a guy that never meet you, never had dealings with you, but you sure are in a hurry to talk crap and crucify him for something you are not even involved in !!

BUYER did nothing wrong.
He choose to walk.
Buyer has that choice right to the end to say "NO".
You cannot force someone to buy something.
It's his choice.
Caveat emptor biotches.

AND...the seller was already there SELLING TO OTHERS !!
OP lost no time, nor effort.
OP LOST NOTHING !!
The buyer spent his time/gas and came away with nothing for his effort.


God damn...why it that soooo f-n hard for most of you to comprehend ??
I swear to god the stupidity and lack of reading skills by people that posted here truly shows how stupid people are here.

And insane propane's post takes the cake for most stupid post. Seriously.

Toddh was the buyer

.

[dyson]

As a buyer, you should make it clear you need to inspect the piece before purchase.

As a buyer, you should be prepared to kick down $10-20 depending on how accommodating the seller was to you in the event you back out. That $10-20 avoids these types of threads and risk of negative feedback.

More importantly, as a buyer, you should know with confidence what firearms you want, how they work, known issues and how it will fit you.

I've always bought what i went to see, but if there is something I notice in person that makes me walk, I ain't paying the seller money on top of that. I guess you could try to work it out with a buyer willing to do that, but don't expect that if it wasn't negotiated

[meno377]

In my opinion, the iTrader rating is misleading,

It only facilitates positive feedback. Positive feedback for a buyer is normally only left after the buyer leaves the seller positive feedback. This way, "feedback retaliation" is not possible.

One has to think twice about leaving negative feedback for fear of "feedback retaliation". Then it becomes a war of he said, she said. People simply don't want to deal with it and would rather leave no feedback vs. negative feedback.

I made an offer for a gun that was listed and the seller accepted my offer. I made several attempts to communicate with the seller to do the transfer. Seller ignored me and I found out through iTrader, that he sold the gun to someone else.

No transaction occurred.
Does the seller deserve negative feedback? You betcha.
Did I leave negative feedback for the seller? No.
Why not? Seller will leave me negative feedback in return.
He said, she said.
Move on.

Here are two rules regarding how the marketplace is supposed to function.

16) Marketplace disputes.
Occasional disputes between a buyer and a seller are inevitable. When this happens notify the Moderators and include a link to the original thread. When one of the Moderators responds be prepared to forward copies of all PM's and emails regarding the transaction. By selling and buying in the Marketplace you agree to abide by the final decision of the moderator team regarding any dispute. Arbitrating disputes is not the job of the moderating team, but if we're asked to deal with a problem we expect you to respect and abide by our decisions. Failing to do so may result in losing access to the Marketplace and possibly the entire forum.

17) iTrader ratings.
Negative feedback should be reserved for transactions where one party has lost either money or goods, or the delivered product is substantially different than advertised. Positive feedback is appropriate for a transaction with good communications between they parties involved and that completes in a timely manner. Neutral feedback is for everything else, including transactions which are not completed. Use the comment section to describe why you gave the rating you did. Retaliatory feedback is not tolerated and should be reported to a moderator. See Rule #16 regarding Marketplace Disputes.

2nd. Either party can initiate a rating.

[meno377]

In my opinion, the iTrader rating is misleading,

It only facilitates positive feedback. Positive feedback for a buyer is normally only left after the buyer leaves the seller positive feedback. This way, "feedback retaliation" is not possible.

One has to think twice about leaving negative feedback for fear of "feedback retaliation". Then it becomes a war of he said, she said. People simply don't want to deal with it and would rather leave no feedback vs. negative feedback.

I made an offer for a gun that was listed and the seller accepted my offer. I made several attempts to communicate with the seller to do the transfer. Seller ignored me and I found out through iTrader, that he sold the gun to someone else.

No transaction occurred.
Does the seller deserve negative feedback? You betcha.
Did I leave negative feedback for the seller? No.
Why not? Seller will leave me negative feedback in return.
He said, she said.
Move on.

I agree with you and understand your frustration. You can report this to a moderator if you feel that the seller was waiting for a better offer assuming he/she didn't specifically state that condition with you. But with that being said, the marketplace technically is driven by the free market.

[Ronin2]

So in other words..."Buy this item or else I'll do something bad to you."

No..."in other words"..... Keep your commitment or I will report to others that you don't...

AND...the seller was already there SELLING TO OTHERS !!
OP lost no time, nor effort.
OP LOST NOTHING !!
The buyer spent his time/gas and came away with nothing for his effort.

Just because you claim there was no damage to the seller, and you do not know if he lost other buyers by keeping his commitment to BOLOGNA, that makes it all right? That the lack of harm makes BOLOGNA's actions Ok? REALLY??...that is what you are trying to say here right?

God damn...why it that soooo f-n hard for most of you to comprehend ?? I swear to god the stupidity and lack of reading skills by people that posted here truly shows how stupid people are here.

As to who here is "basically ignorant" and "stupid and lacks reading skills", I would refer you, Toddh, to the dictionary definition below of the word "commitment"....

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Full Definition of COMMITMENT
1a : an act of committing to a charge or trust: as (1) : a consignment to a penal or mental institution (2) : an act of referring a matter to a legislative committee
b : mittimus
2a : an agreement or pledge to do something in the future; especially : an engagement to assume a financial obligation at a future date
b : something pledged
c : the state or an instance of being obligated or emotionally impelled

BUYER did nothing wrong.
He choose to walk.
Buyer has that choice right to the end to say "NO".
You cannot force someone to buy something.
It's his choice.

Yes the buyer did do something wrong, he COMMITTED to buy a gun he wasn't sure he wanted. He clicked on the "buy it now" icon before he knew what he wanted and then had buyers remorse. As far as I am concerned, honor and integrity require him to follow thru with HIS COMMITMENT as long as the condition of the weapon is as advertised and represented. Only the sellers misrepresentation of some undisclosed condition or problem with the gun would make walking away appropriate and honorable. It would appear that in this case there was no problem with the gun so THE ONLY PERSON GUILTY OF MISREPRESENTATION was BOLOGNA. He MISREPRESENTED his COMMITMENT to buy the gun if it was in the condition advertised!

Caveat emptor biotches.

After getting a clear understanding of your view of honor and business ethics, I will go on record as never willing to do business with you under any circumstances.... EVER!