DOJ APPS agents seize 500+ guns from Clovis resident

[TeddyBallgame]

if a judge ordered him to sell them it seems he had some sort of due process concerning his mental state

if he went in for evaluation 3 times in one month, maybe we need to find out a little bit more about what that is all about

guy could be going through a really bad period, hard to say

[Untamed1972]

Oh man we're so zafe now.

Yep..we're safe from a guy who hasn't done anything to anyone apparently. Glad my tax dollars are being well spent!

Meanwhile.....Bay area LEAs have lost and cant account for more than 500 guns in the last 5yrs.

[ScottyXbones]

Oh you're a republican? You're crazy. 5150

You had an argument with someone once? You're crazy. 5150

You were sad for a few days? You're crazy. 5150

You took sleeping medication once? You're crazy. 5150

You want to own guns??. You're crazy. 5150


This is the danger with another human being determining your mental health, especially with antis in chargeof the system.

[Jimi Jah]

Not really seeing the problem here. The guy was placed on a "mental hold" against his will by either police or medical professionals, therefore, he is a PROHIBITED" person, period. What's the beef?? You really want crazy people to have firearms???

Who determines what a "mental hold" is, does a pro 2nd admendment belief system count?

This is why the NRA is against adding those on a "terrorist watch list" to those prohibited to buy/own/posses firearms.

The criteria to determine those not allowed has no appeal apperatus. It's Obama's way of adding anyone he doesn't like to the prohibited firearms lists.
Once on it, you have zero recourse. Potentially Obama could add the entire republican party to that list.

[Librarian]

The application of the law, like any law, is subject to abuse.

Here's a patient-level pamphlet explaining the process. Here's the 2015 trainng manual for SF Public Health.

[geoint]

Who determines what a "mental hold" is, does a pro 2nd admendment belief system count?

This is why the NRA is against adding those on a "terrorist watch list" to those prohibited to buy/own/posses firearms.

The criteria to determine those not allowed has no appeal apperatus. It's Obama's way of adding anyone he doesn't like to the prohibited firearms lists.
Once on it, you have zero recourse. Potentially Obama could add the entire republican party to that list.

Well said!

[hunterb]

Ever taken a Zanex? The problem is the definition of "crazy" is getting watered down. Just because a cop or some dr says you are crazy doesnt mean you are. There are lots of people losing their 2nd Amendment rights over something as trivial as anti anxiety or stress relief meds. Dont be so quick to side with the wrong team.

Pretty soon, just the ACCUSATION of mental illness will make you a prohibited person. They will use it to silence dissent and further their fascist utopia.

[Jjwisled]

I wonder where he kept the stuff he didnt want found

[bruss01]

Oh you're a republican? You're crazy. 5150

You had an argument with someone once? You're crazy. 5150

You were sad for a few days? You're crazy. 5150

You took sleeping medication once? You're crazy. 5150

You want to own guns??. You're crazy. 5150


This is the danger with another human being determining your mental health, especially with antis in chargeof the system.

It's well-documented that in some totalitarian regimes, dissidents and "agitators" for the non-dominant political parties were frequently "institutionalized" to take them out of circulation. Not saying that's what happened here (without more facts) but you have to wonder, how many anti-gun neighbors must it take, to aledge that you're paranoid & delusional (because you maintain you have a right to firearms as a bulwark against institutionalized tyranny, and because you own a number of guns that they personally find "disturbing") before men in white coats arrive to take you on an all expenses paid weekend getaway? Probably not that many. Get upset about it, and accuse them of being "out to get you" and you get flagged as having a rage disorder and being "paranoid".

The point being, you don't have to be crazy... you just have to be accused of being crazy. And that's where the real danger comes from in keeping guns away from folks that actually are crazy. Sure, if someone actually is certifiably crazy, and a clear danger to themselves or others, we ought to look long and hard about whether them running round with guns is a problem. But where do you draw the line? It's not like there is some on/off crazy indicator. More than half the people on this board have a neurosis of some kind - whether that's Aspergers, ADD, arachnaphobia, social anxiety, PTSD or any of a hundred other minor complaints or eccentricities. And I would bet that most if not all of them are completely harmless - well, mostly harmless (and I mean that in a good way). And yet, some of the sickest people "out there" in general circulation have never seen a shrink of any kind - because they're good at coping and hiding their dysfunction.

[AKSOG]

If he hadn't technically blown a fuse before. I'm sure he has now

[Oxnard_Montalvo]

Ya know what? I'm also astonished that MANY firearms enthusiasts think there is no such thing as a person who should not have firearms & ALL guns in the hands of ANYONE is simply a wonderful thing. Perhaps they feel like traitors to the second amendment & freedom if they acknowledge that guns aren't for everyone.

You are clearly ignoring that we are in the days where some in our society are DEMANDING that other groups have ALL of their rights COMPLETELY removed simply because they don't agree 100% with ALL of the views of the 1st group (specifically global warming / 'deniers').

What this comes down to is the disagreement of what SPECIFICALLY constitutes the 'baseline' if you will over which the authorities can and should remove one's rights. One side is saying ANY contact whatsoever with a mental health professional is enough, and it doesn't matter if it just something (relatively) simple such as marriage counseling (w/o ANY indication of violence of ANY kind).

Anyway, there's obviously WAY more to this story which hopefully will come out as the media dribbles out what they think we 'need' to know about this situation.

[CZ man in LA]

Not really seeing the problem here. The guy was placed on a "mental hold" against his will by either police or medical professionals, therefore, he is a PROHIBITED" person, period. What's the beef?? You really want crazy people to have firearms???

We don't know what "mental hold" means. Put it another way, political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union was common to those who questioned against the state:

Comrade 1: Hi comrade, just between you and me, I don't think Communism works and I wish to move to America, the land of the free...
Comrade 2 (undercover KGB agent): I understand you very well comrade! (later on passes note to KGB that Comrade 1 is insane)

That's the troubling part about this. What's stopping the State of CA in claiming you to be "mentally unfit" because you support RKBA? Don't tell me you're too naive to not to have heard statements like "you're crazy that you support the 2A in today's times!" by the radical left, or that the Democrats won't use the same tactic as the old Soviet Union to those who questions their authority.

[brownfeathermedic]

All I can say is Damn! The state is going to destroy them, or they'll end up lost! And BTW,the only Normal is the setting on your Dryer. everyone has gonna bannanas one time or another.

[HardwoodRods]

Here's a silly question I'm sure. The DOJ said the guns were just loose in his house and unsecured, but if no children were present in the house and had access to the evil weapons where is the problem? If my house is locked and the alarm is set, have I not "secured" the firearm?

[dustoff31]

Here's a silly question I'm sure. The DOJ said the guns were just loose in his house and unsecured, but if no children were present in the house and had access to the evil weapons where is the problem? If my house is locked and the alarm is set, have I not "secured" the firearm?

That is probably just an observation for added impact and not a criminal charge, since as you say there weren't any children around, as far as we know.

However, the son said that they were running a dealership out of the house, so there may be some issue there with unsecured guns.