Got a call from Consumer Affairs...

[GuyW]

Now why would you call mall security "idiot mall ninjas"? They're providing security for a private place of business. They're doing their job. No firearm openly carried belongs there, unless it's on the belt of a LEO. Wouldn't you agree?

Sorry, you have lost your way in the internet: This is NOT the Brady forum....

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[GuyW]

I understand your reasoning but to post ALL rules would be absurd and the list would be never ending. I'm sure the mall has never had any issues with people wanting to OC in the mall so you might suggest that they post more signs in visible locations. Send the mall reps an offcial letter requesting that they do so in order to prevent incidents like the one you had.

Could you actually see the mall posting up rules such as "no masterbation allowed in any area of the mall, sex is prohibitted at this mall, no taking off your pants in any location other than dressing rooms"? Such rules are common sense.

Public nudity etc is illegal IIRC.

How's that logically relate to exercising rights?
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[AaronHorrocks]

McVeigh murdered innocent people.

The U.S. Government murdered innocent people.
So has the German government, the Vietnamese government, the Chinese government, the Korean government, the Soviet government...

We can do this all day long. Governments have slaughtered millions in the 20th century. Communist governments alone account for over 100 million murdered "innocents".

What the U.S. Government did in Waco was murder innocent people. Over what? A few unpaid property tax dollars that's unconstitutional to begin with? Did they have the chance to fight it in court? I saw the tanks on TV myself, it was a slaughter.

200 years ago we had a "Boston Massacre" that fueled the revolution. Someone fights back in recent history, and it's called a terrorist? I guess Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and all the rest were considered terrorists to the British too.

[45DAVID1]

This thread has taken a major detour from what it was supposed to be... someone please kill it already!

[pullnshoot25]

I would prefer our side to call it by the proper, non-spin, non-pejorative terminology:

"properly understanding all the inticacies of the laws".

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Much better stated, thank you GuyW.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

Oh, stop it. I understand if you don't condone what McVeigh did. I'm not saying I condone it either. I understand his actions, assuming it wasn't some false flag event. But to say "We make changes at the ballot box" in the face of the past debacle between CFR Big Government anti-gun liberal pro-fiat-currency immigration amnesty "change washington" Anti-Constitution McCain and CFR Big Government anti-gun liberal pro-fiat-currency immigration amnesty "change washington" Anti-Constitution Obama is just stupid.

Thanks for calling my post "stupid."

If that's how you really, truly feel, then you really ought to get off your *** and, instead of posting here, go blow up a government building and call it revolution. Saying you don't condone it but that you understand it is just psychobabble BS.

If you don't like your government, vote it out. Take it back. Blowing up federal employees and their kids is plain and simple murder, and the first step to anarchy. The Founding Fathers weren't anarchists or terrorists and didn't revolt against the King lightly. They did everything they could to work within the system before it went where it ultimately went. They didn't have a vote. We do.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

200 years ago we had a "Boston Massacre" that fueled the revolution. Someone fights back in recent history, and it's called a terrorist? I guess Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and all the rest were considered terrorists to the British too.

No, actually they were considered treasonous. The "Boston Massacre" wasn't what fueled the revolution, which started way before the Declaration of Independence or the actual exchange of gunfire with British troops. What fueled the revolution was the Crown taxing the colonies relentlessly to pay for England's wars in Europe, and the refusal of the Crown to recognize and respond to the petitions of the colonies.

Don't try to equate Waco with the American Revolution, or the stupid things Janet Reno caused there with nation states going to war, or for that matter the things the Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin and Tojo did to what the Allies' did in WW II. That kind of simplistic attempt at moral equivalency is false and intellectually bankrupt.

You think McVeigh was a righteous revolutionary and not a murdering scum terrorist? Then follow in his footsteps. He blew up a truck full of fertilizer and killed a bunch of people trying to live their lives, and ran like the yellow coward he was. I hope he's rotting in hell this very minute. Join him if you like, but don't try to apologize for him or his acts. He was no patriot, sir. He was a coward and a murderer.

[Theseus]

[Vin496]

+1

I could see this thread being used in an antigun news reports, about the extremist that frequent these site.

Kind of scary to think we have some here that think Mcveigh is a martyr and a true Patriot.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

Put the thread down and step away from it, and no one will get hurt!

[elsensei]

Oh for pete's sake. Paratus, do you also believe that "they hate us because we're free"?

[Paratus et Vigilans]

Oh for pete's sake. Paratus, do you also believe that "they hate us because we're free"?

What I believe is that this is America, not some Banana Republic, and not the Third Reich. I believe in the Constitution of the United States of America. I believe in the power of the vote, and the power of the people. I do not beleive in blowing up federal buildings and killing innocent people if I am unhappy with the government. I believe that the government and law enforcement work for me, not vice versa, and that if either of them ever forget that fact, the ballot box and the courthouse will be my remedies before I turn to my rifle, and while I don't ever expect to have to turn to my rifle as a remedy in this country, it's there if I need it.

[M. Sage]

Now why would you call mall security "idiot mall ninjas"? They're providing security for a private place of business. They're doing their job. No firearm openly carried belongs there, unless it's on the belt of a LEO. Wouldn't you agree?

I disagree strongly. If the mall doesn't want privately-owned guns, they're welcome to post a sign (and I'll refuse to shop there, ever, even though I don't OC or CCW.. yet) and kick people out for violating their rule. That's fine, it's private property and they have the right to set the rules as they see fit. However... that does not include "arresting" someone for breaking a rule. You cannot arrest people for that, only for breaking the law. Calling them idiot mall ninjas fits, IMO, because they illegally detained a law-abiding free man.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you've been fed too much of the "GUNS R 4 COPZ" koolaid. Time to spend a couple years outside California and change your perspective.

And for that matter, why isn't the OP an "OC idiot"? He's walking onto private property without the owner's permission to OC. He's like a big kid, walking around and hoping somebody tells him, You can't bring that in here. lol

He'd have probably reacted a lot differently if they'd said that to him. But that's not what happened. He wasn't told to leave it in the car, he wasn't told to leave it at home, he wasn't asked to leave or banned for life.

If he's so in fear of his own life, maybe he should just stay home, bar the front door, and keep all his guns and ammo in front of him.

I agree. And you should stop driving. I mean, if you've got to have things like airbags, ABS and seatbelts in your car, you're definitely too scared to be on the road.

Kind of scary to think we have some here that think Mcveigh is a martyr and a true Patriot.

I need to try and stay on-topic, but I'll stray and agree 100%. I've met some of McVeigh's old buddies in the Michigan Militia. They're morons. Hopeless morons. And they're *******s, too. Trust me; there is nothing to idolize in that group of retards.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that last bit. It was unkind to retards.

[aileron]

Kind of scary to think we have some here that think Mcveigh is a martyr and a true Patriot.

I think neither....

He was a criminal, acting as a rebel at best. But not a terrorist. Plain as day to me.

It is dangerous to allow governments to reclassify actions into simplified words that instill fear in people and allow the govt to do things to people that would not normally be condoned.

Assault weapon ring a bell.

[M. Sage]

It is dangerous to allow governments to reclassify actions into simplified words that instill fear in people and allow the govt to do things to people that would not normally be condoned.

Assault weapon ring a bell.

Terrorist has a dictionary definition:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism

(one who participates in) the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

Perhaps we should be more concerned with the media and society attaching a moral value to terms that shouldn't have one attached to it. A terrorist could be good or bad, depending on who s/he's terrorizing.