The gun show loop hole topic

[The War Wagon]

Hillary is also touting the guns bought online. She is inferring that those buyers do not go through a background check. She is also inferring that the buyer just orders it online and UPS drops it off on his porch.

Ask her how many SHE'S bought that way?

[SomeGuy75]

Curious, what are the laws in Nevada regarding gun shows and private party sales? Do they require FFL PPT like CA?

[anothergunnut]

This is a perfect issue for Democrats to BS the public. The real answer is much more complicated and can't be refuted in a thirty second sound bite.

Who, exactly, do they think they will stop from purchasing guns by mandating background checks? Explain to me how that is going to affect a mass shooter who has no criminal or mental health issues, is highly motivated, and plans for years. Okay, how about a career criminal since they are the real problem with violence in America. Does the background check requirement prevent a straw buyer from providing a gun to a career criminal? How about a gun that has been stole; is that subject to a background check?

We actually have existing federal laws that President Obama could enforce without any EOs or changes in existing law that would address the worst criminals if he would just tell the DOJ to enforce them. Project Exile was a success in getting criminals to stop carrying guns because of strict prosecution of felons in possesion laws. The DOJ could focus on prosecuting people for the various federal crimes with mandatory sentences such as falsifying a Form 4474, straw purchases, and felon in possession.

President Obama doesn't do that because "black lives don't matter"; pandering to the liberal base does.

[GW]

Yeah, NICS checks can still be done from dealers. For private party sales they aren't necessary, and don't need to take place at a gun show.

For example, you could go to a gun show with a rifle over your shoulder and a pricetag hanging off of it, and then just sell it to whoever says they'll take it. They hand you cash, you hand them a rifle, part ways. But that has nothing to do with a gun show, as you could do the same thing via and online ad(like a marketplace forum, or even craigslist assuming it doesn't get flagged), go meet in a 7-11 parking lot or whatever and do the transaction there.

Basically, it's the "gun show loophole" because they don't like gunshows, and want every state in the US to have a crappy PPT requirement like CA. It's also not a "loophole", since it's simply one person selling private property to another. They want to call it a "loophole" to scare people into thinking that the law is being subverted or whatever, when it clearly isn't.

Well said. The biggest problem we have is that the libtards are controlling the language of the debate. They call it a loophole while we call it freedom. Semi-auto rifles are called "assault weapons" They are winning the war of words.

[rromeo]

Somebody explain this "loophole" to me so I can take advantage of it before they close it???

I use the gun show loophole once a year. That's when I renew my NRA membership, save $10 on the membership, and $9 on the gate fee. That's $19 to buy ammo.

[rromeo]

But if I'm just buying a gun person to person, the guy I am buying the gun from is not obligated to check my ID right? So how's he going to know what state I am a resident of?

The obligation is to sell to a resident of the he lives in, and not sell to a known prohibited person. If I ask where you live, you say Virginia. If I ask if you're prohibited from owing a gun, you say no. I have completed my obligations in selling a gun to you.

[baggss]

The obligation is to sell to a resident of the he lives in, and not sell to a known prohibited person. If I ask where you live, you say Virginia. If I ask if you're prohibited from owing a gun, you say no. I have completed my obligations in selling a gun to you.

^^THIS^^

If I lie and say VA when it's really CA, and say NO when t's really YES, then I have committed the crime, not the seller. Most law abiding folks don't do **** like that, but criminals could care less. This is the essence of the "loophole" issue and what the Dems are trying hard to stop. What they don't seem to get is that passing a law isn't going to change this, it's just going to make more people criminals.

But they are going to try, because the track record of stopping the selling and buying illegal drugs is working so well, so why wouldn't this?

[dustoff31]

Obama's EO would require those who sell 50-100 guns per year to obtain their FFLs, thereby triggering the background check requirement.

50 - 100 guns. So they intend to eliminate the gun-show loop hole by not eliminating the gun-show loophole, it that the deal?

[audiophil2]

Yeah, NICS checks can still be done from dealers. For private party sales they aren't necessary, and don't need to take place at a gun show.

Out of state dealers cannot run NICS checks or transfer guns at gun shows.

No, only residents of Arizona can do this.

Incorrect. State and Federal laws vary on what residents and types of guns can buy and be cash and carried but anyone from any state can buy a gun at any gun show unless there are specific laws preventing that. A CA resident can buy just about anything at an AZ gun show within the law but they cannot cash and carry almost everything. Almost all transfers require an AZ FFL to ship the firearm to a CA FFL and must be legal in CA.

But if I'm just buying a gun person to person, the guy I am buying the gun from is not obligated to check my ID right? So how's he going to know what state I am a resident of?

There are plenty of LEA's trolling gun shows, gun show parking lots, and online ads trying to buy guns off the books. Most free state private sellers insist on the required state ID and usually want a resident CCW. Buyers usually insist on that also so they are not buying stolen stuff or from a LEO.

The obligation is to sell to a resident of the he lives in, and not sell to a known prohibited person. If I ask where you live, you say Virginia. If I ask if you're prohibited from owing a gun, you say no. I have completed my obligations in selling a gun to you.

Good luck with that.



There is no such thing as a gun show loophole because buying from a private party is legal in most states as already mentioned. Most buyers and sellers already practice reasonable background checks between each other by checking ID and some require signed receipts and record personal info.

In AZ most gun shows have big name FFLs/Manufacturers with tables full of guns but they are typically from out of state and cannot transfer. Local dealers rarely rent a table at gun shows because buyers do not want to do back ground checks or pay tax.

The majority of tables have a few guns on them and they are from private sellers.


Nationwide background checks will happen. The FBI already updated ENICS with more options for FFLs to pick on transfers "for dealers in states that now require FFL transfers on all firearms"

Here is the newest list of choices. The ones in bold were not there a few months ago.

Sale of Handgun
Sale of Long Gun
Sale of Other
Pre-Pawn of Handgun
Pre-Pawn of Long Gun
Pre-Pawn of Other
Redemption of Handgun
Redemption of Long Gun
Redemption of Other
Private Sale of Handgun
Private Sale of Long Gun
Private Sale of Other
Private Sale Return to Seller Handgun
Private Sale Return to Seller Long Gun
Private Sale Return to Seller Other

[sigstroker]

Some states like AZ don't have a requirement for all firearms sales to go thru an FFL like CA does.

When I lived in AZ, I bought and sold guns all the time.

Your avatar makes me wanna vomit. I can't read your posts at mealtime.

[Agent 0range]

But if I'm just buying a gun person to person, the guy I am buying the gun from is not obligated to check my ID right? So how's he going to know what state I am a resident of?

I've bough, sold, and traded several guns privately in the past 2 years since leaving CA. only 1 was a privately owned firearm from a dealer at a gun show. The rest usually take place in grocery store parking lots. Every one of the transactions involved both of us showing each other our CHL's for proof that we meet residency and age requirements and that neither of us are prohibited persons.

[anothergunnut]

But if I'm just buying a gun person to person, the guy I am buying the gun from is not obligated to check my ID right? So how's he going to know what state I am a resident of?

Rromeo answered this pretty concisely. But ask yourself, why is it illegal for a person to buy a gun in a different state? What exact harm does that cause? I'm at a loss to name any other type of personal property that I can't purchase anywhere in the country.

[Twiki357]

The biggest problem with closing the supposed gun show loop hole (Universal Background Checks) is that it cannot actually be enforced without registration of every gun in the country. If the government doesn’t know every gun you have, there is no way that they can ensure that a sale was done with a background check of the buyer. Without complete registration of all guns, private sales (legal or not) cannot be identified. And registration will lead to confiscation. If you think not, just take a look at Brittan and Australia.

[anothergunnut]

That's a feature, not a bug.

[Epaphroditus]

"Loophole" is a fiction. Contorting oneself to comply with the laws as written is not exploiting a loophole. Who's fault is it lawmakers do not know how to make laws that are 'contortion free'?