.45 acp penetration problems?

[Cali-Preacher]

Here is the results of an exhaustive study using real world results.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

The 45 ACP was just slightly more effective than the 9 mm in all measures of stopping power (a couple of percentage points).

Here is another article of a trauma surgeon that has seen many people still have plenty of fight in them after being hit with 45 ACP and survive being hit with it also. He has seen people die and/or be incapacitated with smaller calibers. It is all shot placement and the determination and physical condition of the person shot.

Ballistic gel tests do not translate to real world results. The reason many agencies are going back to 9mm is because the average person can fire off 2 rounds of 9 mm to ever round of 45. Two 9 mm holes on target do more damage than 1 45 hole. With handgun calibers, the one thing that is certain, it generally takes at least 2 holes to stop a threat and lighter recoiling rounds accomplish that much more quickly.

With that said, I own guns in 9 mm, 45 ACP, and 10 mm and i would carry any one of them. Each has a different use.

Thanks for the link.

[cineski]

When it comes to ball ammo, 45 is superior. When it comes to good modern hollow points, the difference in 9/40/45 is negligible. At that point it becomes how much do you want to shoot? 9 is cheap, 45 isn't.

[Cali-Preacher]

When it comes to ball ammo, 45 is superior. When it comes to good modern hollow points, the difference in 9/40/45 is negligible. At that point it becomes how much do you want to shoot? 9 is cheap, 45 isn't.

I totally agree

[bountyhunter]

Originally Posted by bountyhunter View Post
Don't sell that statement with a money back guarantee. We had a documented shooting at our range where a range worker put two rounds of .45 defense ammo into the chest of an armed perp at about 5 yards range. Neither round expanded, both were straight through wounds neither lethal. The perp ran about a block and sat down. Stood trial, went to jail.

Sounds like it took the fight out of him if he ran away.

I should know better than to get involved in these idiotic ".45 is supreme" threads. But there is a pervasive myth that it will drop people like shot ducks and the truth is that any typical handgun cartridge has only a small chance of delivering an immediate one shot kill, even with good shot placement.

If you think an armed perp that can run a block has "no fight in him" it proves what I am saying. In this case, I think he ran because he didn't realize he was up against an armed person. As I have said many times, if you are in a close quarters gunfight with an armed perp who is determined to fight, you have a good chance of being shot. Prepare for it. Even if you place your shots well and use the MAGIC .45 caliber bullet, do not expect an instant kill.

[bountyhunter]

Here is the results of an exhaustive study using real world results.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

The 45 ACP was just slightly more effective than the 9 mm in all measures of stopping power (a couple of percentage points).

But nobody ever believes such data because "everybody knows" the .45 is the best..... based on stories of charging Afghanis who were shot 18 times in the chest with NATO M9 ammo and didn't even slow down or other such urban myths.

The funny thing is that ammo makers all follow the same pattern when making ammo "more lethal": they reduce the grain weight of the bullet and crank up he velocity which increases muzzle energy which is proportional to velocity squared.

It's probably best if we just publicly acknowledge that nothing ever will be as good as the .45ACP and be done with it. Perfection can only be attained once.

[jeremiah12]

It's probably best if we just publicly acknowledge that nothing ever will be as good as the .45ACP and be done with it. Perfection can only be attained once.

I will agree with that if it ends the caliber wars.

Here is some proof of the superiority of .45ACP:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/dean-weingarten/man-kills-9-foot-bear-45/

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/05/grizzly-bear-shot-and-killed-hikers-denali-national-park-and-preserve5943

They have even proven their worth against Alaskan brown bears and grizzlies. There is no need for those 44 mags.

Now, if you could end the Glock vs 1911 war as easily.

Oh wait, the 1911 was designed for the .45ACP, well, that one is solved also.

[L84CABO]

I always thought 11-12 inches of penetration was the standard?? No?

I mean, that's plenty to get to the vitals of probably 99.9999% of the knuckle draggers on this earth. And yea, you could run into someone wearing four denim jackets under a leather motorcycle jacket or something crazy but we're talking about pistol cartridges here. If you need something for that situation you should be looking at a rifle or shotgun with slugs. To much penetration can be a bad thing too if it's coming out the other side.

That said, my personal favorite is Federal HST. I think it's a fantastic round based on everything I've seen and read. And their rounds typically do very well out of shorter barrels too.

[MontClaire]

Try +P rounds.

[bountyhunter]

Try +P rounds.

Most defense ammo is +p pressure levels. The ammo makers get more lethal cartridges by going to a lighter bullet weight and cranking up the pressure to get higher velocity which maximizes muzzle energy. If the gun it goes in is rated for +p, you can bet the ammo they make to go in it is as well.

[Cali-Preacher]

I always thought 11-12 inches of penetration was the standard?? No?

I mean, that's plenty to get to the vitals of probably 99.9999% of the knuckle draggers on this earth. And yea, you could run into someone wearing four denim jackets under a leather motorcycle jacket or something crazy but we're talking about pistol cartridges here. If you need something for that situation you should be looking at a rifle or shotgun with slugs. To much penetration can be a bad thing too if it's coming out the other side.

That said, my personal favorite is Federal HST. I think it's a fantastic round based on everything I've seen and read. And their rounds typically do very well out of shorter barrels too.

Without a doubt, a 45 acp can be a very lethal round. This was not meant to start a caliber debate that some guys turned it into, because I think that is foolish. I was simply asking a question about average penetration on the 45. 12" is certainly deep enough to prove fatal. Hst's are my fav as well, then prob the Gold dots. I shoot heavy for caliber in my 9's and 40's with the Hst's. Ill prob be shooting heavy for caliber Hst's for my 45 as well.

[Marktallica]

The point is a simple one to me , all work under certain circumstances and all fail under other circumstances . That is why Magazines have more than one shot , so that one can pull the trigger again and again until the perp is down.

Great comment and the best argument in any caliber-war. No human being is going to be able to survive 9 rounds of 45, 14 rounds of .40, or 17 rounds of 9mm (barring a terrible shooter and extraordinary luck, of course), nor does 1 round of any caliber guarantee a kill. It's YOUR life on the line, shoot what YOU like.