.45 acp penetration problems?

[bountyhunter]

I have and will continue to "bet" my life on it any time any place against anyone. Your shooter missed the important things like a spine or heart or well you take your pick.

Yeah, I know... the .45ACP was God's gift and all others pale in it's glow.

My post was to point out that even the best .45 rounds may not be lethal even with excellent center mass hits.

And if you think that you are going to have time to line up a spine/heart shot when you have to draw your gun and fire while an armed perp is pointing a gun at you.... well, that's a pretty high opinion of your marksmanship.

The point is that any pistol caliber is weak and that's why soldiers carry rifles. They don't "go into combat" with a pistol as their main weapon, at least not the ones that want to live.

[bountyhunter]

One shot, except to significant cerebral cortex or spinal cord, is unlikely to quickly stop most people...

CORRECT. It ain't like on TV.

[sholling]

Standard pressure 45acp does just fine out of a 4" or 5" handgun (230gr HST = 13.5" of penetration and an expanded diameter of .892 out of a 5"). It's not my 1st choice for a 3" micro-pistol but when the hair is standing up on the back of my neck I want a 45acp. On the other hand, I don't feel helpless with a 3" 9mm full of 147gr HST or Winchester's "Defend".

The videos are from two sources that I consider reliable.

[Springfield45]

Have you shot anyone or been shot? My point is that unless you have seen the effects of it or lived through it you really don't know what happens. Measure the thickness of the average human chest and I think you will find out that you stick a .45 slug 12 inches into a chest it's going to go out the other side baring hitting a rib bone and the spine and both of those will be in bad shape after being hit. I can tell you for a "fact" that a .45 acp will take the fight out of almost any human you shoot with it. Quit worrying about some BS jelly test. I use a .45 with fmj 230 gr. ball ammo and yes I used the same in combat, I'm still here and some others aren't. HTH
elk hunter

This. I have met a lot of felons that have been shot on the streets by gangs or by Cops. Most were shot with 9mm's. A few have been shot with 40 S&W. But I have only met a handful that survived the 45 ACP.

[Beendare]

I think the problem is folks basing their entire opinion on ballistic gel.

A bullet generates shock to the body- among other things. The potential energy in a .45 is much more than that of a 9mm- no matter how you measure it.

The transfer of that energy in the form of hydrostatic shock is correspondingly higher...a lot of that due to the heavier bullet.......of course if you can shoot both equally well- the .45 is a better stopper.

[JDay]

Don't sell that statement with a money back guarantee. We had a documented shooting at our range where a range worker put two rounds of .45 defense ammo into the chest of an armed perp at about 5 yards range. Neither round expanded, both were straight through wounds neither lethal. The perp ran about a block and sat down. Stood trial, went to jail.

Did you ignore the word "almost" in his statement?

[CSACANNONEER]

I prefer to have ammo that will transfer energy to my intended target instead of wasting energy penetrating through it. While I have done extensive, hands on research regarding deep penetration, none of it was with bullets so, the OP does have one up on me.

[RR.44]

I prefer to have ammo that will transfer energy to my intended target instead of wasting energy penetrating through it. While I have done extensive, hands on research regarding deep penetration, none of it was with bullets so, the OP does have one up on me.

Oh you nasty man!

J/K

I wouldn't want to get shot by a .45 or a 9mm or any other caliber for that matter.

[MrEd]

the navy seals use 9mm , all European police forces use 9mm , special forces use .45ACP . All have had encounters with deadly outcome for the bad guy . The point is a simple one to me , all work under certain circumstances and all fail under other circumstances . That is why Magazines have more than one shot , so that one can pull the trigger again and again until the perp is down .

One should remember that under the right circumstances a .22 is deadly

[liberty47]

Don't sell that statement with a money back guarantee. We had a documented shooting at our range where a range worker put two rounds of .45 defense ammo into the chest of an armed perp at about 5 yards range. Neither round expanded, both were straight through wounds neither lethal. The perp ran about a block and sat down. Stood trial, went to jail.

Sounds like it took the fight out of him if he ran away.

[califor]

I have met a lot of felons that have been shot on the streets by gangs or by Cops. Most were shot with 9mm's. A few have been shot with 40 S&W. But I have only met a handful that survived the 45 ACP.

But perhaps this is because 9mm is the most widely used caliber?



I came to this thread wondering about over-penetration. I'm concerned with 9mm jhp going through walls

[I Swan]

I'm waiting for someone to post how 10mm is some sort of death ray.

[jeremiah12]

Here is the results of an exhaustive study using real world results.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

The 45 ACP was just slightly more effective than the 9 mm in all measures of stopping power (a couple of percentage points).

Here is another article of a trauma surgeon that has seen many people still have plenty of fight in them after being hit with 45 ACP and survive being hit with it also. He has seen people die and/or be incapacitated with smaller calibers. It is all shot placement and the determination and physical condition of the person shot.

Ballistic gel tests do not translate to real world results. The reason many agencies are going back to 9mm is because the average person can fire off 2 rounds of 9 mm to ever round of 45. Two 9 mm holes on target do more damage than 1 45 hole. With handgun calibers, the one thing that is certain, it generally takes at least 2 holes to stop a threat and lighter recoiling rounds accomplish that much more quickly.

With that said, I own guns in 9 mm, 45 ACP, and 10 mm and i would carry any one of them. Each has a different use.

[Citizen_B]

Another caliber debate. At the end of the day they're all pretty similar in regards to handgun wound effectiveness. Pick what every is going to get you to train often and shoot well. Placement placement placement.

That said, I like 9mm.

[keep_ur_powder_dry]

10-4, ammo needs are use specific....ball ammo has it's place

I am confident that the Federal Hydrashok 45 Auto / ACP 230 grain JHP is adequate to isolate most threats.

gb