.45 acp penetration problems?

[Cali-Preacher]

I have done extensive study for years with 9mm ballistics and internal wound affects and a fair amount of study on 40 caliber ballistics, internal & external wound channel, temporary cavity and penetration studies. However, I just bought a xd in 45 caliber in a 4" barrel. This is the first 45 caliber I have ever owned so ballistics/wound channel/penetration data & studies on the 45 is brand new to me. In my studies, Ive noticed a lot of premium ammunition in 45 caliber are penetrating gel blocks, w or w/o denim, are penetrating in the 12-14" range, and a lot in the 11-12" range. This seems to be borderline shallow penetration for me, in comparison to a lot of 9 & 40 caliber 16"-18" penetration. Am I just watching the wrong vids and reading the wrong articles or is 12"-14" about standard penetration for the premium JHP ammo on the market. i.e. Federal HST, Speer GDHP, Hornady Critical D, etc...Any response is appreciated. Im looking for home defense, and conceal carry ammo for the 45 acp. Thanks guys.

[SonofWWIIDI]

18" here.

[SonofWWIIDI]

What a waste of good beef ribs!



Looks like pretty good penetration to me. Through the jacket/teeshirt, the rib bone and the gelatin

[mif_slim]

The FBI test is just that, a test. Ive seen a lot of game taken and many times the "weak, non-expanding, non-limb-lobbing-heart vaporizing-head turning to mist- center mass exploding-body thrown 20 feet in the air" bullet can put down game/threat with a single shot.

Just worry about shot placement, keept your feet moving and finding cover. Everything else will pan out.

[Cali-Preacher]

Guys, I agree, a well placed shot with any caliber gun is going to stop most threats. A well placed shot with a 45 is stopping A LOT of threats. (there are exceptions) However, I was just curious about the penetration, but based on some others vids posted here, it seems there is plenty of penetration. Thanks for the input.

[P5Ret]

Here is a good article on ballistic gel testing. The gel imitates tissue it is not a substitute for tissue.

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/bullet-effectiveness-whats-the-big-deal-about-12-penetration-anyway/

[M1A Rifleman]

I use a .45 with fmj 230 gr. ball ammo and yes I used the same in combat, I'm still here and some others aren't. HTH
elk hunter

/\ agree, the 230 grn ball seems to have worked well in stopping foes since about 1911.

[bountyhunter]

I have done extensive study for years with 9mm ballistics and internal wound affects and a fair amount of study on 40 caliber ballistics, internal & external wound channel, temporary cavity and penetration studies. However, I just bought a xd in 45 caliber in a 4" barrel. This is the first 45 caliber I have ever owned so ballistics/wound channel/penetration data & studies on the 45 is brand new to me. In my studies, Ive noticed a lot of premium ammunition in 45 caliber are penetrating gel blocks, w or w/o denim, are penetrating in the 12-14" range, and a lot in the 11-12" range. This seems to be borderline shallow penetration for me, in comparison to a lot of 9 & 40 caliber 16"-18" penetration. Am I just watching the wrong vids and reading the wrong articles or is 12"-14" about standard penetration for the premium JHP ammo on the market. i.e. Federal HST, Speer GDHP, Hornady Critical D, etc...Any response is appreciated. Im looking for home defense, and conceal carry ammo for the 45 acp. Thanks guys.

You're not wrong. I remember thrashing this topic out with the 9mm haters who claimed that the M9 and the standard issue NATO 9mm FMJ is "weak". One of the data points was that the .45 had poor penetration when the target was wearing heavy canvas type clothing (like military) and the 9mm FMJ went right through it.

Another problem especially with .45 defense loads is they don't attain enough velocity is short barrel carry weapons to get the good ballistics they claim on the package.

[bountyhunter]

Have you shot anyone or been shot? My point is that unless you have seen the effects of it or lived through it you really don't know what happens. Measure the thickness of the average human chest and I think you will find out that you stick a .45 slug 12 inches into a chest it's going to go out the other side baring hitting a rib bone and the spine and both of those will be in bad shape after being hit. I can tell you for a "fact" that a .45 acp will take the fight out of almost any human you shoot with it.

Don't sell that statement with a money back guarantee. We had a documented shooting at our range where a range worker put two rounds of .45 defense ammo into the chest of an armed perp at about 5 yards range. Neither round expanded, both were straight through wounds neither lethal. The perp ran about a block and sat down. Stood trial, went to jail.

[KrisDSA]

Don't sell that statement with a money back guarantee. We had a documented shooting at our range where a range worker put two rounds of .45 defense ammo into the chest of an armed perp at about 5 yards range. Neither round expanded, both were straight through wounds neither lethal. The perp ran about a block and sat down. Stood trial, went to jail.

This ^^^. And the guy is a member on here.

[Packy14]

Guys, I agree, a well placed shot with any caliber gun is going to stop most threats. A well placed shot with a 45 is stopping A LOT of threats. (there are exceptions) However, I was just curious about the penetration, but based on some others vids posted here, it seems there is plenty of penetration. Thanks for the input.

One shot, except to significant cerebral cortex or spinal cord, is unlikely to quickly stop most people...they will have plenty of time to kill you first.

[JustEd]

How fat do you expect the perp to be?

[JustEd]

Have you shot anyone or been shot? My point is that unless you have seen the effects of it or lived through it you really don't know what happens. Measure the thickness of the average human chest and I think you will find out that you stick a .45 slug 12 inches into a chest it's going to go out the other side baring hitting a rib bone and the spine and both of those will be in bad shape after being hit. I can tell you for a "fact" that a .45 acp will take the fight out of almost any human you shoot with it. Quit worrying about some BS jelly test. I use a .45 with fmj 230 gr. ball ammo and yes I used the same in combat, I'm still here and some others aren't. HTH
elk hunter

I agree with you, ball ammo is my choice too.

[c4jesus]

Define "study". Watching videos created by others is not studying. It's wasting time watching other people waste time. Studies are systematic. Learning about how organisms respond to trauma is done systematically. Watching youtube videos is not systematic learning and it sure as heck doesn't contain any experiment validation, peer review or disinterested analysis. If you think ballistics gel tests translate directly in any way to performance on live targets you're fooling yourself, deluded about what studying is and certainly not educated as a scientist sufficiently to "study" the matter. As far as .45acp penetration, if it's not enough for you why did you buy the .45?

[bountyhunter]

How fat do you expect the perp to be?

My wife used to run the coronary care unit at the county hospital. About ten years back they had to start using "double wide" wheel chairs to get the elephants in and out. And one of their ten million dollar x-ray scanners was "only" designed to handle max load of 400 pounds and one of the patients broke it....

seriously.