FL CCWer charged with second-degree murder

[Albs]

http://news.yahoo.com/911-calls-reveal-both-sides-deadly-road-rage-151448595.html

[alfred1222]

Guys an idiot, why go home? Why not coordinate with police? Why a lot of things

[DMotivate]

Seems like he had more options available to him other than opening fire. Could have continued driving and not headed home, coordinated with police to meet an officer, police station, etc...

[Citadelgrad87]

Morons all around. "The guns already out"? Wtf? Jonesing to shoot someone? Why not drive to the police station and say "I'm bringing him to you. My car is a 20xx xxxxx, I'll put my flashers on. Stop the white xxx behind me"?

[_TomT_]

I am going to assume it was more the fact that both idiots were currently pissed off at each other than just plain old stupidity. When people are angry they don't think rationally.

[roostersgt]

Similar to the shooting event that occurred in Marin County, in some ways, with a certain doctor, but at east these idiots had some good sense and at least called 9-1-1. After that, they all showed extremely poor judgement. Wonder how much alcohol was involved. I'm certain that as time goes on and more CCWs are issued, we'll see many more incidents like this. The laws of probability and statistics squarely support it.

[CSACANNONEER]

If you are being followed, you should call 911 and follow their direction and/or drive to nearest police station, fire station or hospital.

[epilepticninja]

I am going to assume it was more the fact that both idiots were currently pissed off at each other than just plain old stupidity. When people are angry they don't think rationally.

^^This.

[dwalker]

Very interested to hear the 911 tapes.

First, if you follow me home, I am likely to greet you with a firearm on exiting my vehicle, ESPECIALLY if my family is with me . And who wouldnt? Following the guy home was a dumbass thing to do and shows who was the aggressor.

Second, I am going to believe the following driver got out of his car in a threatening manner. Again, not a bright thing to do.

You know why he did? Because we are becoming conditioned to believe you can do stupid things like follow a man and his family home and approach with aggression and not get shot.


ETA: The wifes statement doesnt hold water either, if the guy just wanted his address then why not just drive by? Or for that matter why not just take the guys tag number and let the police handle it. The following driver wanted to whoop this guys ***, and got shot for it. Play stupid games...

[tamalpias]

Very interested to hear the 911 tapes.

First, if you follow me home, I am likely to greet you with a firearm on exiting my vehicle, ESPECIALLY if my family is with me . And who wouldnt? Following the guy home was a dumbass thing to do and shows who was the aggressor.

Second, I am going to believe the following driver got out of his car in a threatening manner. Again, not a bright thing to do.

You know why he did? Because we are becoming conditioned to believe you can do stupid things like follow a man and his family home and approach with aggression and not get shot.


ETA: The wifes statement doesnt hold water either, if the guy just wanted his address then why not just drive by? Or for that matter why not just take the guys tag number and let the police handle it. The following driver wanted to whoop this guys ***, and got shot for it. Play stupid games...

my thoughts exactly. I am faulting the second driver for this one even though I am sure the first guy did something stupid on the freeway to warrant the other guy being so pissed.

[SheepDog78]

Very interested to hear the 911 tapes.

First, if you follow me home, I am likely to greet you with a firearm on exiting my vehicle, ESPECIALLY if my family is with me . And who wouldnt? Following the guy home was a dumbass thing to do and shows who was the aggressor.

Second, I am going to believe the following driver got out of his car in a threatening manner. Again, not a bright thing to do.

You know why he did? Because we are becoming conditioned to believe you can do stupid things like follow a man and his family home and approach with aggression and not get shot.


ETA: The wifes statement doesnt hold water either, if the guy just wanted his address then why not just drive by? Or for that matter why not just take the guys tag number and let the police handle it. The following driver wanted to whoop this guys ***, and got shot for it. Play stupid games...

Yeah this one is a tough one to call. If you ask me, both men were equally in the wrong. Gonzalez probably shouldn't have followed the guy home. No matter how pissed you are, just pull over, or drive into a parking lot long enough to let it go. OK, even if you MUST follow the guy home (to get his address for a report, yeah right), drive by his house and get the address but for the love of God DON'T GET OUT OF YOUR CAR!!! That's where this guy really screwed up.

From the other guy's perspective, why go home??? Now this guy who you've just pissed off knows where you live. Stupid!!! I agree with everyone else, drive straight to the police station. You stay in your damn car until it's safe to get out or you're next to a police officer.

I dunno, I'm willing to bet he shot the other guy very prematurely, because I find it very hard to believe if he got out of his car with his gun out, and the other guy saw it, that he would still approach him with the intent of doing great bodily harm. That's not to say that would never happen, but he'd have to be whacked out on drugs or just incredibly stupid. Who knows. Hopefully we'll get more facts as they investigate further.

Seems like him using his gun was not a last resort thing. In that case, good, lock him up for murder, and he doesn't need to be carrying a gun or own a gun ever again.

[Citadelgrad87]

Very interested to hear the 911 tapes.

First, if you follow me home, I am likely to greet you with a firearm on exiting my vehicle, ESPECIALLY if my family is with me . And who wouldnt? Following the guy home was a dumbass thing to do and shows who was the aggressor.

Second, I am going to believe the following driver got out of his car in a threatening manner. Again, not a bright thing to do.

You know why he did? Because we are becoming conditioned to believe you can do stupid things like follow a man and his family home and approach with aggression and not get shot.


ETA: The wifes statement doesnt hold water either, if the guy just wanted his address then why not just drive by? Or for that matter why not just take the guys tag number and let the police handle it. The following driver wanted to whoop this guys ***, and got shot for it. Play stupid games...

my thoughts exactly. I am faulting the second driver for this one even though I am sure the first guy did something stupid on the freeway to warrant the other guy being so pissed.

I urge you to re think this. From a security standpoint, if you think you are being followed, do not show the person where you live. Go somewhere else, preferably a police station.

Even if you consider yourself well armed, the person you have a beef with, and the person you are prepared to pull a gun on, now knows exactly where you live.

I have a family. I will never bring this kind of trouble to where my family sleeps.

I agree with you, the dead guy put himself in that position, I also agree he didn't just want the address, he had no need for the address with the tag number.

But if the front car had driven to a police station, he wouldn't be in jail right now, and facing at a minimum a wrongful death suit.

This was poorly handled.

[brian5271]

Lot's of bad judgment here from both parties. Both had much better options, but, when it comes down to it, the dead guy followed the shooter to his house. Big no-no in my book. It is hard for me to feel sorry for what ever happens to either party.

[DDM4556]

This is exactly why so many people are against guns. Because of idiots like this. Like others here have already said, he had a million options. Why would you be stupid enough to drive to your house if someone's following you?

Anyway... everytime our rights are slowly stripped away we can thank geniuses like Mr. Doyle. Common sense is no longer common.

[dwalker]

I urge you to re think this. From a security standpoint, if you think you are being followed, do not show the person where you live. Go somewhere else, preferably a police station.

Even if you consider yourself well armed, the person you have a beef with, and the person you are prepared to pull a gun on, now knows exactly where you live.

I have a family. I will never bring this kind of trouble to where my family sleeps.

I agree with you, the dead guy put himself in that position, I also agree he didn't just want the address, he had no need for the address with the tag number.

But if the front car had driven to a police station, he wouldn't be in jail right now, and facing at a minimum a wrongful death suit.

This was poorly handled.

I do not dis-agree that it might have been better to have driven to a police station, but this is actually why I want to hear the 911 tapes. The 911 operator should have told the guy where the local PD was and how to get there and been working on her end to get the situation safely handled. What if the 911 operator told the guy to go straight home? That police were en route and to go home and lock the doors?

I would not have gone home if I knew an angry person was behind me. With my family with me I would most likely, as you mentioned, have driven to either a police station or depending on where I was located- if I am out in the boonies with no station around for miles- probably have pulled over at a gas station etc. that was open where there would be witnesses. Thats what I would do. I think this guy was scared because he was being pursued by an angry person and his family was with him. For all we know right now the 911 operator told hi to go home and wait for police.

I do not for one minute think the angry guy who followed this guy home drew up short when he saw the weapon. Again in our current society no one thinks anyone else is going to shoot them for thier actions. What you and I may consider reasonable has nothing to do with someone who is wrecked in the head enough to follow a man and his family home on the interstate, with his wife apparently telling him to just let it go, and then get out of the car to have it out with him. Thats is just a stupid stupid thing to do. But in this country where we have been coddled to the point of believing that the pursued in this case did the wrong thing, why would someone who thought it was OK to chase someone home stop just because the other guy drew a gun?


Just another example of how truly screwed up our society is.