Wired Article on Ghost Gunner CNC Mill for 80% Lower

[morthrane]

I watched it again, and don't see where any violation occurred. Per the youtube page, the author states: "I Made an Untraceable AR-15 'Ghost Gun' In My Office".

This is to say, he did the manufacturing on his own premises/office using the Ghost Gunner, drill press, and 3D printer.

While the gun shop does in fact allow him to use some tools to assemble the rifle, he didn't manufacture the firearm on their premises, AFAICT.

Where do you think the violation occurred?

http://www.wired.com/2015/06/i-made-...-15-ghost-gun/:

I could hardly judge the fancy new CNC mill in WIRED’s office without trying that method too. Or for that matter, Defense Distributed’s previous trick, building gun parts with a 3-D printer. Before I realized exactly what I was getting into, I determined to try all three methods in a ghost-gun-making case study. I would build an untraceable AR-15 all three ways I’ve heard of: using the old-fashioned drill press method, a commercially available 3-D printer, and finally, Defense Distributed’s new gun-making machine.

I left the grease-soaked drill press in WIRED’s loading dock, headed back upstairs, and pulled a $2,800 Makerbot Replicator from its box.

Taking my ghost gun on a plane—legally, three ghost guns, in fact, since I had created three lower receivers—seemed unwise. I couldn’t leave them in WIRED’s office in San Francisco either, because that might count as legally transferring ownership of the unserialized guns, which is a felony.

When this story published, the Ghost Gunner still sat in a storage room of WIRED’s office a few blocks away. It’s ready to make another lower receiver at any time.

I guess the question is whether WIRED is a business or not.

Hmm.. "or to use machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion or control "

This seems to mean that if you rented a machine shop with NO ASSISTANCE and the machinery was fully under YOUR control, it would be okay?

That's pretty much what happened before the ATF harassed build parties and later released their new rulings... so probably not OK. You'd rent a machine or two, and handle all the setup and program execution without assistance. It would seem that's no longer OK. Heck, it isn't OK anymore for a non-business home build party to charge money, solicit donations, or even exchanges of goods and services.

[BMartin1776]

so am I right that he broke the law finishing the lower in the gunshop? Yes he did milling in his home but final assembly etc was done using the shop

[morthrane]

so am I right that he broke the law finishing the lower in the gunshop? Yes he did milling in his home but final assembly etc was done using the shop

His home, according to the article, is in New York. So... no on the milling part.

[liber]

Incorrect

Manufacturing doesn't end until the firearm is full functional for the first time.

After that is assembly. Read the federal law on when an 07 FFL is required

I was under the impression (and could be wrong as you state), that it is in reference to the completed receiver. Once a receiver is completed you have violated the law, as far as I knew, even if it's assembled or not, it is a legal firearm.

As a side note, I saw your article on the Sierra site about you and your uncle earlier this year. Good read. I stumbled upon it looking for load data for SMKs.

I guess the question is whether WIRED is a business or not.

However, this piece certainly complicates this issue, and IANAL, but it seems he did complete the lower on their premises, *AND* it wasn't even for personal use, it was for the commercial intent of writing the article. I guess he could claim he was building it for personal use and writing the article for his job, not sure how the court would look at that. OTOH, maybe that is why he turned them into the police.

Didn't say if he took the Ghost Gunner back to NY or not...maybe he's not as dumb as we think he is...

[morthrane]

However, this piece certainly complicates this issue, and IANAL, but it seems he did complete the lower on their premises, *AND* it wasn't even for personal use, it was for the commercial intent of writing the article.

Nah, that part I would think he's fine on. It only matters if the firearm itself is made for further commercial use, such as a sale to a 3rd party.

OTOH, maybe that is why he turned them into the police.

As ke6guj noted... it would have been a federal crime to bring them back to his home state of NY. I really doubt there was anything else standing in his way from transporting the firearms via locked case. Do they even bother checking serial numbers for locked case airline transport?

[liber]

As ke6guj noted... it would have been a federal crime to bring them back to his home state of NY. I really doubt there was anything else standing in his way from transporting the firearms via locked case. Do they even bother checking serial numbers for locked case airline transport?

Is it legal to take it across state lines without going through an FFL? I thought all firearms had to be transferred through an FFL between states.

[morthrane]

Is it legal to take it across state lines without going through an FFL? I thought all firearms had to be transferred through an FFL between states.

IANAL, but I think the Mance v. Holder complaint gives a pretty good idea of what is required.

Manufacturing a receiver, however, doesn't strike me as a party-to-party transfer. ke6guj's post covered it quite well... but on reflection, it makes me wonder if the writer was actually guilty of an illegal interstate transfer. Once he finished the receiver into a fully functional gun, he has "received" (my words) the firearm, from unlicensed manufacturer to private ownership, across interstate lines.

[Myles100]

Straight from Ghost Gunner today! Seems like the present administration is trying to stop the shadetree home gunsmithing industry.


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[Thoughts]

IANAL, but I think the Once he finished the receiver into a fully functional gun, he has "received" (my words) the firearm, from unlicensed manufacturer to private ownership, across interstate lines.

How could he "receive" a gun from himself? I don't see how that word could apply, albeit I'm using English definitions, not lawyer speak. I'm also ignoring the part about using the office, for the moment. Or is that central to your argument?

[morthrane]

How could he "receive" a gun from himself? I don't see how that word could apply, albeit I'm using English definitions, not lawyer speak. I'm also ignoring the part about using the office, for the moment. Or is that central to your argument?

Hell if I know. You can tell me why its considered a "sale" if someone manufactures a firearm for their own private use, per tax law, while you're at it.