Read calwiki and STILL confused about transporting pistol in trunk in socal

[Sharp Shooter]

OP... Now that Librarian has stepped in I hope any vagueness you had has been eliminated. Having a loaded magazine in the same locked container as the firearm that it fits into is clearly legal.

That said this is one of the most misunderstood CA gun laws as demonstrated by the confusion here. I'll bet if you asked 100 LEO's, 50% would say it's illegal

I just had a vendor who was selling pistol safes that could be mounted in the vehicle cabin at the Big Reno Gun Show tell me it was absolutely illegal to have a loaded magazine in the same container. I tried to educate him by showing him the CHP FAQ website on my iPhone. He said the CHP website was wrong. Things went down hill quickly when I told him he just didn't want to admit he was wrong.

[CSACANNONEER]

Fail!

From the opinion "from which the ammunition cannot be fired." if a magazine is not in the firearm, the ammunition cannot be fired. No where in the opinion does it state that a loaded magazine not inserted into the firearm is considered a loaded firearm. You merely inferred that from your own reading of the opinion.

16840. (a) As used in Section 25800, a firearm shall be deemed to
be "loaded" whenever both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition
capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate
possession of the same person.
(b) As used in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 25100) of
Division 4 of Title 4, in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of
subdivision (c) of Section 25400, and in Sections 25850 to 26055,
inclusive,
(1) A firearm shall be deemed to be "loaded" when there is an
unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a
charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner
to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing
chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), a muzzle-loader firearm shall
be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

Note: People V. Clark addresses the issue of live rounds in a storage area attached to a firearm. It did not address the issue of a loaded magazine somehow attached to the gun. In fact, it can be easily argued that the magazine is part of the firearm thus, it is not a storage area. So, a loaded magazine attached to the barrel with a rubber band or hose clamp could still be considered loaded under CA law. Again, I'm saying "could" just like several highly respected firearms attorneys have stated in the past. I'm letting people know the potential risk they are taking if they transport a loaded mag attached to the firearm. If you know the risks and want to take those risks, great! If you don't know that there is a potential risk of harassment, arrest and even conviction, now you know. So, either assume the risk and potential consequences or simply put the loaded mags in your pocket, on the front seat, next to the container the gun is in, on your dash, etc. and don't worry about what might have happened if.... It's up to each individual to make his/her own informed decision. Or, are you against people repeating the advise of attorneys whose opinions are relied on by LEAs and civilians alike?

[CSACANNONEER]

OP... Now that Librarian has stepped in I hope any vagueness you had has been eliminated. Having a loaded magazine in the same locked container as the firearm that it fits into is clearly legal.

That said this is one of the most misunderstood CA gun laws as demonstrated by the confusion here. I'll bet if you asked 100 LEO's, 50% would say it's illegal

I just had a vendor who was selling pistol safes that could be mounted in the vehicle cabin at the Big Reno Gun Show tell me it was absolutely illegal to have a loaded magazine in the same container. I tried to educate him by showing him the CHP FAQ website on my iPhone. He said the CHP website was wrong. Things went down hill quickly when I told him he just didn't want to admit he was wrong.

No where on the CHP's website does it say that it is legal to transport a loaded magazine in the same locked container. It does say that ammunition can be in the same container and it also says that a loaded magazine can not be inserted into the firearm but, it is silent on the matter at hand.

[Malmon]

Simple enough for me. I have a copy of the Calguns Wiki page which pertains to this issue in my range bag, AND I have loaded magazines in the same locked container as my unloaded handguns.

[CSACANNONEER]

Simple enough for me. I have a copy of the Calguns Wiki page which pertains to this issue in my range bag, AND I have loaded magazines in the same locked container as my unloaded handguns.

AND, you know that every LEO that you encounter will accept a Wiki page as law? Cool!

BTW, That's a great idea. I did similar with my homebuilt AK pistol many years ago. However, I kept keep (I think they are still there) actual text of the law showing homebuilds are legal, Ca AW laws, etc. (not interpretation) in my pistol grip.

[autoduel]

AND, you know that every LEO that you encounter will accept a Wiki page as law? Cool!

BTW, That's a great idea. I did similar with my homebuilt AK pistol many years ago. However, I kept keep (I think they are still there) actual text of the law showing homebuilds are legal, Ca AW laws, etc. (not interpretation) in my pistol grip.

I'm sure it will educate those that aren't sure. Any supporting documentation is better than no documentation.
Didn't the LEOs in the past use the AW flowchart to educate their officers how to identify an illegal assault weapon?

[TeddyBallgame]

No where on the CHP's website does it say that it is legal to transport a loaded magazine in the same locked container. It does say that ammunition can be in the same container and it also says that a loaded magazine can not be inserted into the firearm but, it is silent on the matter at hand.

exactly, there is no law stating it is legal, but, and i think more importantly, there is no law in place that says it is illegal to have a loaded magazine with your firearm...most of our gun laws are based on what we CANNOT do, laws that are in place to dictate the things that are NOT allowed

absent a law stating you may NOT have a loaded magazine adjacent to your firearm, exactly what "law" have you broken? nothing exist...it comes down to the definition of what is a loaded firearm, with IS explicitly defined in
16840 (1) A firearm shall be deemed to be "loaded" when there is an
unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a
charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner
to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing
chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.

that is enough for me to feel confident that im not breaking any laws having my loaded magazine in the same locked case of my firearm...attached is the key word used in every definition of a "loaded" firearm

[bonusweb]

Also what's to stop an enterprising LEO from just inserting the mag into the pistol an yelling "BINGO! found a loaded gun! "

[TeddyBallgame]

Also what's to stop an enterprising LEO from just inserting the mag into the pistol an yelling "BINGO! found a loaded gun! "

nothing...it's the same as what's to stop an enterprising LEO from saying that yellow your ran was red

we are definitely at a degree of disadvantage if a LEO wants to plant, or, create evidence in order to arrest you for a crime...that pretty much goes for anything when dealing with a LEO with an agenda to set you up

[Merc1138]

nothing...it's the same as what's to stop an enterprising LEO from saying that yellow your ran was red

we are definitely at a degree of disadvantage if a LEO wants to plant, or, create evidence in order to arrest you for a crime...that pretty much goes for anything when dealing with a LEO with an agenda to set you up

Yeah, there's pretty much no sense in being paranoid about it. If you just so happen to have such bad luck that you manage to get pulled over by a dirty cop looking to bust someone for something while you happened to have a firearm in a case that he could just pop a round in the mag and insert into the mag well claiming you were transporting a loaded firearm...

You're SOL because that guy probably would have done something no matter what precaution you attempted to take.

[Dutch3]

not to be the bearer of bad news, but, it doesn't matter what the law says, or, what case law is already on the books

what really matters is whether or not the LEO you are dealing with knows and understands the law as it is meant to be enforced...if not, it won't matter, you'll still stand the possibility of arrest, and, until the matter can be thoroughly investigated, you'll either stay in a cage, or, hopefully bail out

best case scenario, it will just end up as a "DA reject", no filing of charges, but, that still won't undo the rash of sh** you had to endure, due to THEIR lack of knowledge of the law...worst case scenario, they'll scour the books looking for anything else that they might be able to stick on you to justify EVERYTHING they did...no rock will go unturned...am i wrong?

don't even expect an apology out of it

It worries me that there seem to be a lot of LEO's that are ignorant of the details of the firearm laws they are enforcing. The Police Chief of the City of Chico made a statement that 'possession of high-capacity magazines is illegal in California.'

I certainly abide by the law, but don't want my day /week / year ruined because an officer is following 'department policy' instead of the law as written.

I understand the LEO are not attorneys or judges and that the laws in this state can be difficult to decipher. I am not cop-bashing. It just seems there should be some process for them to be better educated on the details.

[Sharp Shooter]

No where on the CHP's website does it say that it is legal to transport a loaded magazine in the same locked container. It does say that ammunition can be in the same container and it also says that a loaded magazine can not be inserted into the firearm but, it is silent on the matter at hand.

You are right. My discussion with the vendor was about ammo in a locked container with a pistol not a loaded mag in a locked container with a pistol. Sorry for the mixup.

Based on what Librarian and others have posted here and the CalGunsWiki page I believe it's legal to have a loaded mag in the same locked container as the weapon.

That said I don't do it. I have my CCW so it's a non-issue for me. When I go to the range my empty mags are in an outside non-locked pocket of my range bag. Many times, depending on how much ammo I'm carrying, the ammo is in the main locked compartment of the range bag with the pistols I'm going to shoot that day. However if I ever felt the need to have a loaded mag in a locked container with the weapon I would do it.

[71MUSTY]

As the wiki summarizes:


Avoiding schools and federal property isn't particularly difficult to do.



There is one potential issue with a loaded magazine locked in a case with an otherwise unloaded firearm. If for some reason the mag and firearm can bounce around, there's the odd chance that the magazine may find it's way in the mag well. There's nothing to indicate whether or not the magazine is required to be fully inserted into the mag well to qualify as loaded. There are people who toss a pistol and mags loose in a range bag with a lock on it... it's possible that's not a good idea.

OMG remind me never to buy a used firearm from them.

[bonusweb]

nothing...it's the same as what's to stop an enterprising LEO from saying that yellow your ran was red

we are definitely at a degree of disadvantage if a LEO wants to plant, or, create evidence in order to arrest you for a crime...that pretty much goes for anything when dealing with a LEO with an agenda to set you up

Yes and that is why people have camera's mounted on their cars. Btw red light running real or made up, is less serious than loaded gun in your car.

Camera would be cool, but LEO could carry entire case back to his car, then open it and insert magazine. Cops fudge evidence, but are almost never caught or punished for it.

http://www.ocweekly.com/2006-11-09/news/training-day/

Despite those efforts, the gun incident became an issue during an obscure misdemeanor trial last week at Orange County's West Court in Westminster. Police officers were forced to admit under oath that a snub-nosed handgun had been tossed like a Frisbee about four feet into the trunk of a Hyundai belonging to Tom Cox, the suspect. The loaded gun bounced twice and slammed up against the driver's side of the car's trunk. No bullets were discharged.

Brian Knorr, the uniformed officer who threw the weapon, lowered the trunk lid with the gun inside and stepped back, allegedly waiting for an unsuspecting fellow officer to find it during a search, according to testimony. The officer assigned to search the vehicle eventually located the gun and, startled, turned to Cox holding the revolver in both hands. This officer stared at Cox, who began to panic at the scenario of a weapons charge. Knorr walked over, "elbowed that cop and took the gun back," said Cox.

Laughter erupted.

Deputy Public Defender Melani Bartholomew, who represented Cox, asked Officer Dave Wiederin on the witness stand if he and at least six other officers who were present at the crime scene had laughed in front of Cox when the gun was retrieved.