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Read calwiki and STILL confused about transporting pistol in trunk in socal

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  • #16
    CSACANNONEER
    CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Dec 2006
    • 44092

    Originally posted by TeddyBallgame
    i understand what you're saying CSA, we've heard the horror stories, but, it does very clearly state on the CHP site that the ammo and firearm may be in the same container...some people have stated that if the ammo is loaded into a magazine, then, some have considered that to be a "loaded firearm", but, as far as I know, no one has ever been convicted yet for it

    i'll be damned if im going to carry my ammo scattered in my case
    Yup, this is my take on it as well. So, either leave your ammo in it's box instead of the mag or transport the loaded mag in your pocket or anywhere besides the case that the gun is in.

    Originally posted by notme92069
    People v Clark. There has already been a test case. It can be attached to the firearm as long as the ammunition is not in a position to be fired. Ammo can be attached to the but stock or sling (think shotguns) Ammo can be in loaded mags (clips too) as long as the ammo is not in a position to be fired.
    Fail! Read People V Clark again. It CLEARLY states that "in a position ready to be fired" includes in a magazine or clip. So, A loaded magazine in the stock of a SU16 is considered loaded in CA but, having rounds stored in or on a stock which are not in a magazine or clip is legally not a loaded gun in CA. In this case, if a loaded magazine is in the same container as a firearm it will work in, it COULD be considered "attached to" and is definitely legally "in a position capable of firing" even if the magazine is not inserted in the magwell.
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    • #17
      JDay
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Nov 2008
      • 19393

      Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
      Having the loaded mag in the same container MIGHT violate the loaded gun law. No one knows for sure. Do you really want to be the test case? Having an unloaded gun, an unloaded mag and ammo in the same box would not violate the law. Having the gun locked and a loaded mag not in the same container would not violate the law.
      No it doesn't. There is case law on this.
      Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

      The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

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      • #18
        JDay
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Nov 2008
        • 19393

        Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
        Yup, this is my take on it as well. So, either leave your ammo in it's box instead of the mag or transport the loaded mag in your pocket or anywhere besides the case that the gun is in.



        Fail! Read People V Clark again. It CLEARLY states that "in a position ready to be fired" includes in a magazine or clip. So, A loaded magazine in the stock of a SU16 is considered loaded in CA but, having rounds stored in or on a stock which are not in a magazine or clip is legally not a loaded gun in CA. In this case, if a loaded magazine is in the same container as a firearm it will work in, it COULD be considered "attached to" and is definitely legally "in a position capable of firing" even if the magazine is not inserted in the magwell.
        A magazine in the same container is not "attached to the firearm".

        Penal Code section 12031 provides: "A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case which holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm;
        You could also try reading the opinion.

        Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

        The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

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        • #19
          CSACANNONEER
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Dec 2006
          • 44092

          Originally posted by JDay
          A magazine in the same container is not "attached to the firearm".



          You could also try reading the opinion.

          http://law.justia.com/cases/californ...h/45/1147.html
          I've never stated that a loaded magazine in the same container as a firearm it fits IS a loaded firearm. I've only said that it could be. I'm not willing to be the test case for something so trivial, are you?

          Yea, I've read People V Clark and it doesn't address the issue of both a loaded magazine and the firearm being attached via a case or not. It does clearly state that a firearm with shells in a storage compartment is not considered loaded. However, "being in a position to fire" does include a loaded magazine and, as far as I know, there hasn't been a case which has ever ruled that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner is not loaded.

          I'm here to learn so, please provide me with documentation proving that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner but not in the magwell is not considered "loaded" under Ca law. Until then, I will continue to tell people that they should err on the side of caution here.
          NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
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          • #20
            Librarian
            Admin and Poltergeist
            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
            • Oct 2005
            • 44625

            I'm sure CSA has already read the case.

            I am not aware of any post 1996 case where - absent other problems, like felon in possession, gang membership, carry into a prohibited area etc - ammo and gun transported in the same container/same partition of a container has been ruled 'loaded', resulting in a conviction for PC 25850.

            But I don't have Lexis access anymore.

            Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
            ... please provide me with documentation proving that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner but not in the magwell is not considered "loaded" under Ca law. Until then, I will continue to tell people that they should err on the side of caution here.
            Proving a negative? I'm sure that is not what you meant to write.

            But in CA, caution is always appropriate.

            OTOH, I carry loaded mags in my locked cases with my handguns.
            Last edited by Librarian; 03-30-2015, 3:27 PM.
            ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

            Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

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            • #21
              Librarian
              Admin and Poltergeist
              CGN Contributor - Lifetime
              • Oct 2005
              • 44625

              Originally posted by gladiacmx
              Now the part that is VAGUE to me is the following: Can I transport this gun like this in this manner I just described EVERYDAY and say it is for self defense? Because clearly I read you cannot do this? You must have a reason such as I'm going to or from the range or shop? I am not allowed or am I allowed to carry a pistol FOR the rest of my life in the trunk in the manner I described above? Assuming I have no CCW.
              Assuming no CCW and further assuming you do not go places where guns are generally prohibited, YES you may vehicle-transport unloaded in a locked container.

              In-vehicle transport of handguns is not limited by 'destination requirements', but as already noted, vehicle transport of an 'assault weapon' is limited by 'destination requirements'.
              Last edited by Librarian; 03-30-2015, 3:31 PM.
              ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

              Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

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              • #22
                CSACANNONEER
                CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • Dec 2006
                • 44092

                Originally posted by Librarian
                Proving a negative? I'm sure that is not what you meant to write.
                People V Clark proves that a firearm which only has live rounds in a storage container in or attached to the firearm is not legally "loaded" in CA. So, it is proving a negative. I'd love to find case law referencing that a loaded magazine outside of the magwell is similarly not "loaded" under CA law.
                NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
                California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
                Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
                Utah CCW Instructor


                Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

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                • #23
                  Lucky Scott
                  Veteran Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 2603

                  It is always best to be careful, and be on the safe side. Do not expect the police to know the laws, or to do the right thing. Better to make sure you are not in any gray area or do anything that might cause a police officer to arrest you.
                  While there may be a case that proves your point, you may still be arrested, brutalized, or even shot by a law enforcement officer that did not understand the laws.

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                  • #24
                    CSACANNONEER
                    CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 44092

                    Originally posted by Lucky Scott
                    It is always best to be careful, and be on the safe side. Do not expect the police to know the laws, or to do the right thing. Better to make sure you are not in any gray area or do anything that might cause a police officer to arrest you.
                    While there may be a case that proves your point, you may still be arrested, brutalized, or even shot by a law enforcement officer that did not understand the laws.
                    Quit resisting!
                    NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
                    California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
                    Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
                    Utah CCW Instructor


                    Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

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                    • #25
                      teg33
                      Veteran Member
                      • May 2013
                      • 3441

                      Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
                      I've never stated that a loaded magazine in the same container as a firearm it fits IS a loaded firearm. I've only said that it could be. I'm not willing to be the test case for something so trivial, are you?

                      Yea, I've read People V Clark and it doesn't address the issue of both a loaded magazine and the firearm being attached via a case or not. It does clearly state that a firearm with shells in a storage compartment is not considered loaded. However, "being in a position to fire" does include a loaded magazine and, as far as I know, there hasn't been a case which has ever ruled that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner is not loaded.

                      I'm here to learn so, please provide me with documentation proving that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner but not in the magwell is not considered "loaded" under Ca law. Until then, I will continue to tell people that they should err on the side of caution here.
                      Talking from my experience. I've been stop at DUI checkpoint in city of Los Angeles. LAPD officer saw my portable gun safe where I secured my unloaded gun and loaded magazine in the same safe (magazine was not inserted into gun well). He request to check it which I comply. A few moment later I was on my way without any problem whatsoever.
                      Last edited by teg33; 03-30-2015, 4:27 PM.

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                      • #26
                        teg33
                        Veteran Member
                        • May 2013
                        • 3441

                        Originally posted by Lucky Scott
                        It is always best to be careful, and be on the safe side. Do not expect the police to know the laws, or to do the right thing. Better to make sure you are not in any gray area or do anything that might cause a police officer to arrest you.
                        While there may be a case that proves your point, you may still be arrested, brutalized, or even shot by a law enforcement officer that did not understand the laws.
                        Your demeanor will determine the officer reaction. Majority of time, only a law breaker, criminal showed attitude that raised a red flag. If you're acting such an *** and hostile, you give impression to officer that you're potentially breaking the law. The officer will detain you to further investigate and made formal arrest if need to.

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                        • #27
                          CSACANNONEER
                          CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 44092

                          Originally posted by teg33
                          Talking from my experience. I've been stop at DUI checkpoint in city of Los Angeles. LAPD officer saw my portable gun safe where I secured my unloaded gun and loaded magazine in the same safe (magazine was not inserted into gun well). He request to check it which I comply. A few moment later I was on my way without any problem whatsoever.
                          I once passed a CHP officer while driving over 120mph. I didn't get arrested or even cited but, I don't recommend that anyone does it. The next time it MIGHT be a different story.
                          NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
                          California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
                          Ventura County approved CCW Instructor
                          Utah CCW Instructor


                          Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

                          sigpic
                          CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE

                          KM6WLV

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                          • #28
                            TeddyBallgame
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 5732

                            Originally posted by Merc1138
                            As the wiki summarizes:

                            There is one potential issue with a loaded magazine locked in a case with an otherwise unloaded firearm. If for some reason the mag and firearm can bounce around, there's the odd chance that the magazine may find it's way in the mag well. There's nothing to indicate whether or not the magazine is required to be fully inserted into the mag well to qualify as loaded. There are people who toss a pistol and mags loose in a range bag with a lock on it... it's possible that's not a good idea.
                            meh, just get a revolver and a couple of speed loaders, problem solved

                            it will put to rest any worries about a sneaky magazine going rogue and jumping into the magazine well
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                            • #29
                              teg33
                              Veteran Member
                              • May 2013
                              • 3441

                              Originally posted by CSACANNONEER
                              I once passed a CHP officer while driving over 120mph. I didn't get arrested or even cited but, I don't recommend that anyone does it. The next time it MIGHT be a different story.
                              Possible, but I'm willing to take chance, to be a test case so we all know for sure

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                              • #30
                                TeddyBallgame
                                Calguns Addict
                                • Sep 2012
                                • 5732

                                Originally posted by teg33
                                Possible, but I'm willing to take chance, to be a test case so we all know for sure
                                it's sad we have a law that pretty much spells it out in black and white, yet, we still have to walk on egg shells about it if we get stopped, hoping the officer is familiar with the written law, or, if he has a different opinion of what the law means
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