Read calwiki and STILL confused about transporting pistol in trunk in socal

[CSACANNONEER]

i understand what you're saying CSA, we've heard the horror stories, but, it does very clearly state on the CHP site that the ammo and firearm may be in the same container...some people have stated that if the ammo is loaded into a magazine, then, some have considered that to be a "loaded firearm", but, as far as I know, no one has ever been convicted yet for it

i'll be damned if im going to carry my ammo scattered in my case

Yup, this is my take on it as well. So, either leave your ammo in it's box instead of the mag or transport the loaded mag in your pocket or anywhere besides the case that the gun is in.

People v Clark. There has already been a test case. It can be attached to the firearm as long as the ammunition is not in a position to be fired. Ammo can be attached to the but stock or sling (think shotguns) Ammo can be in loaded mags (clips too) as long as the ammo is not in a position to be fired.

Fail! Read People V Clark again. It CLEARLY states that "in a position ready to be fired" includes in a magazine or clip. So, A loaded magazine in the stock of a SU16 is considered loaded in CA but, having rounds stored in or on a stock which are not in a magazine or clip is legally not a loaded gun in CA. In this case, if a loaded magazine is in the same container as a firearm it will work in, it COULD be considered "attached to" and is definitely legally "in a position capable of firing" even if the magazine is not inserted in the magwell.

[JDay]

Having the loaded mag in the same container MIGHT violate the loaded gun law. No one knows for sure. Do you really want to be the test case? Having an unloaded gun, an unloaded mag and ammo in the same box would not violate the law. Having the gun locked and a loaded mag not in the same container would not violate the law.

No it doesn't. There is case law on this.

[JDay]

Yup, this is my take on it as well. So, either leave your ammo in it's box instead of the mag or transport the loaded mag in your pocket or anywhere besides the case that the gun is in.



Fail! Read People V Clark again. It CLEARLY states that "in a position ready to be fired" includes in a magazine or clip. So, A loaded magazine in the stock of a SU16 is considered loaded in CA but, having rounds stored in or on a stock which are not in a magazine or clip is legally not a loaded gun in CA. In this case, if a loaded magazine is in the same container as a firearm it will work in, it COULD be considered "attached to" and is definitely legally "in a position capable of firing" even if the magazine is not inserted in the magwell.

A magazine in the same container is not "attached to the firearm".

Penal Code section 12031 provides: "A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case which holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm;

You could also try reading the opinion.

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/45/1147.html

[CSACANNONEER]

A magazine in the same container is not "attached to the firearm".



You could also try reading the opinion.

http://law.justia.com/cases/californ...h/45/1147.html

I've never stated that a loaded magazine in the same container as a firearm it fits IS a loaded firearm. I've only said that it could be. I'm not willing to be the test case for something so trivial, are you?

Yea, I've read People V Clark and it doesn't address the issue of both a loaded magazine and the firearm being attached via a case or not. It does clearly state that a firearm with shells in a storage compartment is not considered loaded. However, "being in a position to fire" does include a loaded magazine and, as far as I know, there hasn't been a case which has ever ruled that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner is not loaded.

I'm here to learn so, please provide me with documentation proving that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner but not in the magwell is not considered "loaded" under Ca law. Until then, I will continue to tell people that they should err on the side of caution here.

[Librarian]

I'm sure CSA has already read the case.

I am not aware of any post 1996 case where - absent other problems, like felon in possession, gang membership, carry into a prohibited area etc - ammo and gun transported in the same container/same partition of a container has been ruled 'loaded', resulting in a conviction for PC 25850.

But I don't have Lexis access anymore.

... please provide me with documentation proving that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner but not in the magwell is not considered "loaded" under Ca law. Until then, I will continue to tell people that they should err on the side of caution here.

Proving a negative? I'm sure that is not what you meant to write.

But in CA, caution is always appropriate.

OTOH, I carry loaded mags in my locked cases with my handguns.

[Librarian]

Now the part that is VAGUE to me is the following: Can I transport this gun like this in this manner I just described EVERYDAY and say it is for self defense? Because clearly I read you cannot do this? You must have a reason such as I'm going to or from the range or shop? I am not allowed or am I allowed to carry a pistol FOR the rest of my life in the trunk in the manner I described above? Assuming I have no CCW.

Assuming no CCW and further assuming you do not go places where guns are generally prohibited, YES you may vehicle-transport unloaded in a locked container.

In-vehicle transport of handguns is not limited by 'destination requirements', but as already noted, vehicle transport of an 'assault weapon' is limited by 'destination requirements'.

[CSACANNONEER]

Proving a negative? I'm sure that is not what you meant to write.

People V Clark proves that a firearm which only has live rounds in a storage container in or attached to the firearm is not legally "loaded" in CA. So, it is proving a negative. I'd love to find case law referencing that a loaded magazine outside of the magwell is similarly not "loaded" under CA law.

[Lucky Scott]

It is always best to be careful, and be on the safe side. Do not expect the police to know the laws, or to do the right thing. Better to make sure you are not in any gray area or do anything that might cause a police officer to arrest you.
While there may be a case that proves your point, you may still be arrested, brutalized, or even shot by a law enforcement officer that did not understand the laws.

[CSACANNONEER]

It is always best to be careful, and be on the safe side. Do not expect the police to know the laws, or to do the right thing. Better to make sure you are not in any gray area or do anything that might cause a police officer to arrest you.
While there may be a case that proves your point, you may still be arrested, brutalized, or even shot by a law enforcement officer that did not understand the laws.

Quit resisting!

[teg33]

I've never stated that a loaded magazine in the same container as a firearm it fits IS a loaded firearm. I've only said that it could be. I'm not willing to be the test case for something so trivial, are you?

Yea, I've read People V Clark and it doesn't address the issue of both a loaded magazine and the firearm being attached via a case or not. It does clearly state that a firearm with shells in a storage compartment is not considered loaded. However, "being in a position to fire" does include a loaded magazine and, as far as I know, there hasn't been a case which has ever ruled that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner is not loaded.

I'm here to learn so, please provide me with documentation proving that a loaded magazine attached to a firearm in any manner but not in the magwell is not considered "loaded" under Ca law. Until then, I will continue to tell people that they should err on the side of caution here.

Talking from my experience. I've been stop at DUI checkpoint in city of Los Angeles. LAPD officer saw my portable gun safe where I secured my unloaded gun and loaded magazine in the same safe (magazine was not inserted into gun well). He request to check it which I comply. A few moment later I was on my way without any problem whatsoever.

[teg33]

It is always best to be careful, and be on the safe side. Do not expect the police to know the laws, or to do the right thing. Better to make sure you are not in any gray area or do anything that might cause a police officer to arrest you.
While there may be a case that proves your point, you may still be arrested, brutalized, or even shot by a law enforcement officer that did not understand the laws.

Your demeanor will determine the officer reaction. Majority of time, only a law breaker, criminal showed attitude that raised a red flag. If you're acting such an *** and hostile, you give impression to officer that you're potentially breaking the law. The officer will detain you to further investigate and made formal arrest if need to.

[CSACANNONEER]

Talking from my experience. I've been stop at DUI checkpoint in city of Los Angeles. LAPD officer saw my portable gun safe where I secured my unloaded gun and loaded magazine in the same safe (magazine was not inserted into gun well). He request to check it which I comply. A few moment later I was on my way without any problem whatsoever.

I once passed a CHP officer while driving over 120mph. I didn't get arrested or even cited but, I don't recommend that anyone does it. The next time it MIGHT be a different story.

[TeddyBallgame]

As the wiki summarizes:

There is one potential issue with a loaded magazine locked in a case with an otherwise unloaded firearm. If for some reason the mag and firearm can bounce around, there's the odd chance that the magazine may find it's way in the mag well. There's nothing to indicate whether or not the magazine is required to be fully inserted into the mag well to qualify as loaded. There are people who toss a pistol and mags loose in a range bag with a lock on it... it's possible that's not a good idea.

meh, just get a revolver and a couple of speed loaders, problem solved

it will put to rest any worries about a sneaky magazine going rogue and jumping into the magazine well

[teg33]

I once passed a CHP officer while driving over 120mph. I didn't get arrested or even cited but, I don't recommend that anyone does it. The next time it MIGHT be a different story.

Possible, but I'm willing to take chance, to be a test case so we all know for sure

[TeddyBallgame]

Possible, but I'm willing to take chance, to be a test case so we all know for sure

it's sad we have a law that pretty much spells it out in black and white, yet, we still have to walk on egg shells about it if we get stopped, hoping the officer is familiar with the written law, or, if he has a different opinion of what the law means