Denied Gun Purchase

[SIGscout]

Well I'm all for telling dude he went about it all wrong. Also, maybe he smelled of pot at the time of DROS? I'd suppose the FFL could have made a call.
It's getting funny here on Cal Guns, one thread ripping those who DON'T drink while holding/cleaning/shooting guns, then one for guy simply having the paper work that says he can use a proven medication that has been demonized, then OH SNAP! You ordered ammo online from who?! Oh boy were going to need a bigger stove for this fire to cook each other on.
Do your thing. Be safe. Stop s#$#$%& on everyone and you will be OK. They do it anyway, its not any worse now that you are aware of it.
Let's stop getting all worked up, please. Its the different pieces on the chess board that make the game worth playing, otherwise it's just checkers. Like John Malkovich Playing every character in your favorite movie, still entertaining the first time but the tenth time turn it the f*** off.

[JDay]

Just because you have a marijuana referral does NOT mean you've consumed marijuana. I get prescriptions all the time I never fill. Seems to me law enforcement would have to prove you've actually consumed it.

You have to go to a doctor and specifically ask for a referral to get one.

[SunsetIE]

You have to go to a doctor and specifically ask for a referral to get one.

Indeed. But there are also cases of people getting one in a Caregiver capacity to provide medication for an ailing family member.

My mother died of a rare stage 4 cancer last January. Prior to that, she tried some infused candy bars and they helped her tremendously with pain and being able to walk. She almost seemed normal, like she wasn't sick, and back to the strong person that raised me.

Does this mean I should no longer own any of my firearms, because I had a recommendation?


My bets are on OPs "friend" marked yes on the 4473.

[The Last American Hero]

No doubt he was reeking of some dank buds as he was filling out the paperwork.

I'm always running into folks reeking of buds who must not know everyone around them smells it big time.

Then you got my pack a day smoker buddy who thought he could fool his GF and claim he "quit" by cutting back to 1/2 pack and only smoking at work.

[Wang Lung]

You have to go to a doctor and specifically ask for a referral to get one.

OK. Big deal. That does not mean you have consumed marijuana. Could be you just changed your mind.

[ugimports]

...
My bets are on OPs "friend" marked yes on the 4473.

See post 72:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=15974832&postcount=72

While that is entirely possible I don't know why the FFL would waste his time running the DROS when at a federal level he would already be denied.

[colossians323]

unintended consequences of legalizing a mind altering drug, whose only benefit is to alter your mind and give you the munchies

[CSACANNONEER]

unintended consequences of legalizing a mind altering drug, whose only benefit is to alter your mind and give you the munchies

Alcohol?

[The Gleam]

....then one for guy simply having the paper work that says he can use a proven medication that has been demonized...

You can get all "brotherly love" and Albert Schweitzer in a holier-than-thou diatribe that you wish, but you've got one important element in your soliloquy very wrong within your audition for being the next Maharishi:

It's not something merely demonized that is the problem; demonizing does not necessarily make something illegal, and in accordance with the 4473 and Federal law, as a user - even with paper work that says he can use a proven medication - he can not buy a gun legally.

Even if NOT demonizing, and I don't see much of that at all, it poses a problem for the buyer as a prohibited person in the eyes of the law. If this is something you don't like, then work to change the law; otherwise, nobody finding fault with this possible scenario of it being the reason for the denial is lambasting the person denied unjustly.

You either are or are not prohibited, and all the "angelizing" in the heavens is not going to change that fact.

[Frotz]

Let me try again:

Is a cubic zirconia a "form of a diamond" or a synthetic substitute?

Hint: Ask your wife on this one.

I did some research on the subject and asked some questions. I have not used it myself. There are lots of people in Washington who have MM cards and own guns (and have concealed pistol permits). My source told me that nobody in her circle have been harassed over having both cannabis and firearms. However, wearing firearms or driving while stoned is a big no-no the same as doing those things while drunk. There haven't been any significant problems there either. Marinol is the primary active compound in cannabis, but is by no means the only significant one. Also, there is no way to moderate the use of Marinol. It's all or nothing. Medical users typically take a little bit then wait a few minutes, then take a little bit more, and repeat until they figure out what works for them. Marinol is all-or-nothing and hits you like a ton of bricks. It was described to me as "not particularly effective, rather unpleasant, and probably a way to convince the ignorant that medical marijuana doesn't work.".

[SloChicken]

I did some research on the subject and asked some questions. I have not used it myself. There are lots of people in Washington who have MM cards and own guns (and have concealed pistol permits). My source told me that nobody in her circle have been harassed over having both cannabis and firearms. However, wearing firearms or driving while stoned is a big no-no the same as doing those things while drunk. There haven't been any significant problems there either. Marinol is the primary active compound in cannabis, but is by no means the only significant one. Also, there is no way to moderate the use of Marinol. It's all or nothing. Medical users typically take a little bit then wait a few minutes, then take a little bit more, and repeat until they figure out what works for them. Marinol is all-or-nothing and hits you like a ton of bricks. It was described to me as "not particularly effective, rather unpleasant, and probably a way to convince the ignorant that medical marijuana doesn't work.".

Well, this is entirely wrong.

Not that my 12 years as a RN working in critical care and my masters in clinical research design and management and countless instances wherein I have directly administered this medication would have any bearing on my opinion.

In short.
Marinol - is a trade name given to PO gel tablets given to many cachectic or otherwise nutritionally compromised patients to help reduce nausea, and also increase appetite (See: the munchies).
It is quite effective, has very little in the way of side effects, and is almost as good for the patients as pot is.
Only problem with marinol? It costs about $30-$50/tab.

You can thank your government regulators for that one.

End of it all, pot/marinol is laughable in the lack of actual side effects to the user. Particularly vs. other options out there.

Even aspirin, NSAIDS (Aleve, Motrin/Ibuprofren/Advil, et al.) have far more side effects that actually do make people ill (GI bleed anyone ???).
Never have seen a single patient secondary to marijuana use. Not one. Nada. Nil. Nicht ...

Still, the law is the law.
Smoke pot?
No gun for you.

Now go on and toss back some alcohol and have a smoke. That is all okay ...

[diveRN]

...

Never have seen a single patient secondary to marijuana use. Not one. Nada. Nil. Nicht

...

Thread tangent here:

I work in critical care too, 8 years in ICU/CCU and 4 in the ED. I'm currently working in a large, high volume, metropolitan hospital (not in California) and see patients fairly regularly who come in for acute anxiety/panic attacks *most likely* related to smoking too much sticky bud. Many are folks who've never had any kind of psych history prior to said visit... they're just too stoned.

While some anxiety cases are legitimate, how do we know that others are pot-induced? These kinds of patients often wreak of cannabis and are, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, cannaboids (POS) via a UDS. Sure, the chicken/egg argument can be made, but here in Texas, the DPS has a provider database that allows a prescriber to access all schedule 2,3, and 4 prescriptions for a patient going back 5 years. Some pts have 'scripts for oral anxiolytics, most don't.

We stick 'em, give 'em a milligram of Ativan, a rapid liter of saline, and they get past the acute anxiety in a 1/2 hour or so. By the time they get to this point, they're just high.

All of that said, docs NEVER write a formal dx of anxiety secondary to drug abuse, but their DC paperwork most often includes educational info regarding drug use.

...back to our regularly scheduled programming.

As someone who deals with HIPAA on a daily basis, protected healthcare info (PHI) is private, it is NOT confidential, unless deemed "confidential" by the patient. When a patient wants their info confidential, we don't even acknowledge a patient's presence in the hospital to anyone, including law enforcement. A related crime or warrant notwithstanding.

Their PHI doesn't get shared with other providers not directly involved in that hospitalization, including their primary doctor and/or specialists, unless the patient specifically authorizes such a disclosure.

Unless the CDOJ obtains a warrant for said medical records, which is possible in certain cases but very unlikely, they're not going to get anything from a healthcare provider/entity under Title 45 as it relates to a background check.

Any firearms prohibitions due to medical issues will be adjudicated first, (EDIT) or self-reported.

[SloChicken]

haha!

love it!
You have to wonder with the Ativan though. Treating anxiety (elevated HR/SBP, panicky pt, otherwise unremarkable) with a drug that actually does have side effects not that you should see any problems with 1mg lol.
Still just how medicine works.
Both you and I know those pts would be more effectively treated with some cookies, cartoons, and a soft pillow.

I have been treating a resp failure pt that is combative (pulled out her entire tracheostomy a few days ago) with zyprexa, abilify, amongst other things. During one acute episode the MD ordered Ativan 2mg ivp and her SBP dropped precipitously into the 70s necessitating brief resuscitative efforts.

Case in point re: Ativan and side effects, vs. Pot side effects.

Not a perfect world, but the people that are having a problem with all this (Gov't entities, population at large) really aren't looking at pot realistically., particularly vs. other drugs in use to day. (Alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, adderal)

[calibased]

Denied Gun Purchase

.....

[diveRN]

5 states have legalized recreational pot in the last few years. We are well past the "does it have medicinal usage" part. It does. It's been documented and it's known. Very few side effects, relatively harmless. Especially compared to alcohol.

I find it interesting that pot advocates state that the drug has medicinal properties. I won't dispute that it has a place for treatment of legitimate medical conditions ... but in the same breath, advocates compare it to alcohol.

Except in wildly rare cases, have you ever heard of consumed alcohol being used to treat a medical condition? Me either. Not counting those who drink certain alcohol because it "tastes good," it's generally consumed for its mind/body altering properties.

You can't have it both ways. For a valid comparison, you should mention other drugs like mirtazipine, fluoxetine, or promethazine.

...
Case in point re: Ativan and side effects, vs. Pot side effects.

Not a perfect world, but the people that are having a problem with all this (Gov't entities, population at large) really aren't looking at pot realistically., particularly vs. other drugs in use to day. (Alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, adderal)

I'm not advocating ativan's use over pot... not at all. I'm not even comparing the two. I think cannabis can be an effective tx for some, but as we both know, legitimate medical conditions where someone has a "pot card" are far outnumbered by other situations where the consumer just wants to get high "legally." Similarly, ativan/xanax have a place, too. Are they overprescribed? Yep.

But my point was, you said you've never cared for anyone with a condition secondary to cannabis ingestion. All I'm saying is that it happens, and more often with more severity than you might think. I had a case about a month or so ago where a patient was BIBA with an acute anxiety attack who was in a bad way. SBP >200 (with a hx of CVA/TIA), hr>130, and just freaking out almost to the point of psychosis. We had to isolate briefly.

No rubber room with cookies and soft music was going to bring this one down. 2mg of IM ativan (they didn't sleep following, SBP came down to 150s) finally mellowed them out enough so we could get an IV and bloods ... funny thing was, pt eventually admitted to smoking heavily just PTA. Nothing but pot in the urine. Was it the ativan that brought the pressures down or the resolution of the acute anxiety? Anyone's guess.

As healthcare professionals, we know that every drug, including "medications" as innocuous as oxygen and saline, have side effects. Pot is no different.

Sorry OP, we'll take this discussion elsewhere.