What's going on with ammo?

[bountyhunter]

The tyrant is making his move and the people are getting ready.

That is such a load of baloney. Do you really want to know where the ammo shortage came from? A huge part of it is the panic stampede caused by baloney about how Obama was going to collect all the guns.

That sent fools rushing out to buy guns they don't need, don't want, and will never shoot..... and of course, they needed 5000 rounds of ammo for each one. That creates a spike in demand.

Unfortunately, supply already was down from war drain on world resources. Overseas sources like Wolf, Brown Bear, Tulah, Sellier + Belott etc that provided a big supply of cheap ammo here dried up as they diverted into the more lucerative markets local to their locations (supplying military).

That means US only supplies could never meet the demand. But whats worse, the US government was placing large "buys" at US suppliers for various baloney reasons probably to channel to the insurgents we support through the CIA.

And, of course, there were the scalpers buying up ammo so they could sell it on Craig's list at 400% prices.

That's how you create a shortage, but the biggest motivator: just keep telling everybody how the "tyrant" is going to take their guns and ammo so they will keep running out to buy stuff they will never use.

[Jimi Jah]

I have a bumper sticker that reads "NRA Salesman of the year" with a pic of Obama on it.

Looks like I can keep it on the jeep for a while longer.

[retiredAFcop]

I can't believe that gun owners are so ill prepared that within 3 weeks of the ATF release they are unable to go shoot because no ammo is available. People need to realize that the supply can change within a few hours or days.

A month ago, ammo was plentiful, yet plenty of people were saying " I'm holding out for another 3 cent per round drop". All it takes is for a rumor to start, or a wacko goes on a rampage, and everything changes. We've seen several months of good supply and reasonable prices, and anyone who doesn't have a few boxes on hand, especially this early in the "panic" has nobody to blame but themselves.

There are three broad categories of ammo buyers (and different people will draw the lines between the various groups in different ways, and at different points):

1) The "buy it and shoot it" group, who often find themselves at the mercy of the market.

2) The "hoard & flip" group who view market changes as an investment opportunity and try to use market fluctuations to their financial advantage.

3) The pragmatic preparedness group who try to maximize their shooting budget by buying in bulk when they can afford to, and maintaining a supply on-hand to ride out market excesses.

These categories apply to reloaders, as well as buyers of packaged ammunition, although reloaders are much more likely to be in that third group - or at least have higher round counts as the lines between each group.

For years I was in the "buy it, shoot it" category. I thought I was well prepared if I had enough extra ammo for the next range trip sitting in my closet with my guns (and that was generally one box of ammo per range trip). Then I started to try to keep a "combat load" on hand for one rifle and handgun (based on the 120 to 210 rounds of M-16 ammunition and 30-45 rounds of M-9 ammunition I would carry when on patrol while in the military). Then I started to bring friends out shooting, and realized that if I was going to buy 500 rounds or more, it was a lot cheaper to buy in bulk than box by box at a sporting goods store. Then I realized that I should keep enough ammo on hand for a big range trip so I wouldn't have to wait for delivery (or a restock). Gradually, I started keeping a larger supply of ammunition (and then ammunition and reloading components) on hand as my experiences showed me that it was beneficial to me to do so. When I mentor new shooters, I suggest that they think about the benefits of such a plan, but I don;t pass judgment on them if they start out in the "buy it and shoot it" category - after all, I was one of those guys for years before I learned (and could afford) to do things differently.

I decided to try to keep at least a one year supply (based on my typical usage) of each type of ammo I shoot on hand, as well as an "emergency" supply for natural disasters or other "Zompoc" events. After the recent "ammo-drought", I am trying to keep a two year plus supply on hand. I sometimes fall a little low, but usually am able to keep on track.

This means that every year or two I make a bulk purchase online for each caliber.

I was watching ammo prices for 5.56/.223 because they were nearing what I consider to be the "right" prices to "buy it cheap and stack it deep" when this M855 thing surfaced. I don't consider it "panic buying" to have picked up this year's 5.56 bulk purchase in M193 ammo for a few cents a round more than I had hoped to, before the M855 price increases rippled over to include M193 - it was a reasonable response to a fairly predictable market pattern. That said, I didn't go into debt to buy that ammo, nor did I buy it in the hopes of selling it at a profit. I spent about one cent a round more than I expected, and about about a nickel a round more than I had hoped to.

There is a predictable ripple effect when shortages occur. If people can't get one type of 5.56/.223 ammo, or can't get it at a price they can afford, they will look to buy another type of 5.56/.223 ammo so that they can do their shooting.

Once they can no longer find 5/56/.223 in their price range, they start shooting their other guns - so other calibers start to be impacted by the ripple effect. As demand for those calibers goes up, and the available supply shrinks, some sellers will raise prices.

For example, in the not too distant past, 5.56/.223 was commonly going for $1 per round at local stores. This made shooting a .308 or 30.06 at seventy some odd cents a round much more attractive. It also made pistol caliber AR uppers more attractive.

If the shortage (or "run") on one caliber goes on long enough, it will drive down availability and drive up prices of all kinds of ammunition.

[tophatjones]

I was watching ammo prices for 5.56/.223 because they were nearing what I consider to be the "right" prices to "buy it cheap and stack it deep" when this M855 thing surfaced. I don't consider it "panic buying" to have picked up this year's 5.56 bulk purchase in M193 ammo for a few cents a round more than I had hoped to, before the M855 price increases rippled over to include M193 - it was a reasonable response to a fairly predictable market pattern. That said, I didn't go into debt to buy that ammo, nor did I buy it in the hopes of selling it at a profit. I spent about one cent a round more than I expected, and about about a nickel a round more than I had hoped to.

Same here, pretty much spot on.

[Bansh88]

What ammo shortage? I just bought 2,000 rounds of .22 and 200 rounds of .308 this week on-line. Gunbot.net is a very useful resource.

yet you needed to use a dedicated ammo search webiste to find it.

There may be not be a "shortage" but there is definitly an issue with availability. Anyone who says there is not is just gloating about their recent hoard

[twinfin]

I don't blame people for buying up what they can get for their AR's. The ATF says they are only planning to ban M855 ammo because it can fit in an AR pistol and it can pierce soft body armor.

So you arrive at the ammo counter and see that all the M855 ammo is gone. Then you start to think to yourself that all AR-15 rifle ammunition will go through a cop's soft body armor and you start to think what would stop ATF from banning other types of AR-15 ammo until one by one, there is no type of AR -15 ammo left to buy?

Even worse is the Obama administrations lawless behavior and a congress that will not stand up to him, Obama's well known disdain for the constitution and you are left with an American people that see how fragile our rights are.

As long as Obama is in office, we sill continue to see very high demand for guns and ammo with sudden runs when the government makes a move to control something whether it be a certain gun or a certain kind of ammo.

[twinfin]

I don't blame people for buying up what they can get for their AR's. The ATF says they are only planning to ban M855 ammo because it can fit in an AR pistol and it can pierce soft body armor.

So you arrive at the ammo counter and see that all the M855 ammo is gone. Then you start to think to yourself that all AR-15 rifle ammunition will go through a cop's soft body armor and you start to think what would stop ATF from banning other types of AR-15 ammo until one by one, there is no type of AR -15 ammo left to buy? I think this is part of what's driving the urge to buy other 223/5.56 ammo besides the M855 variety.

Even worse is the Obama administrations lawless behavior and a congress that will not stand up to him, Obama's well known disdain for the constitution and you are left with an American people that see how fragile our rights are.

As long as Obama is in office, we sill continue to see very high demand for guns and ammo with sudden runs when the government makes a move to control something whether it be a certain gun or a certain kind of ammo.

[Deadon]

I don't blame people for buying up what they can get for their AR's. The ATF says they are only planning to ban M855 ammo because it can fit in an AR pistol and it can pierce soft body armor.

So you arrive at the ammo counter and see that all the M855 ammo is gone. Then you start to think to yourself that all AR-15 rifle ammunition will go through a cop's soft body armor and you start to think what would stop ATF from banning other types of AR-15 ammo until one by one, there is no type of AR -15 ammo left to buy? I think this is part of what's driving the urge to buy other 223/5.56 ammo besides the M855 variety.

Even worse is the Obama administrations lawless behavior and a congress that will not stand up to him, Obama's well known disdain for the constitution and you are left with an American people that see how fragile our rights are.

As long as Obama is in office, we sill continue to see very high demand for guns and ammo with sudden runs when the government makes a move to control something whether it be a certain gun or a certain kind of ammo.

Lol so will MOST riffle ammo. So do you suggest buying every cal.?

[HOGDOG1955]

we are all different and that makes none of us wrong or stupid as some here seem to like saying. several years ago i bought several thousand rounds of pmc 223 at $5.99 a box shipped to my house before i even owned a rifle in that caliber. now i have 2 ars a little over 5,000 rounds and i didnt pay higher than 8 bucks a box for any of it and im happy. over the last 2 years i bought about 90,000 rounds of 22 at walmart prices and i and a few other are happy. yesterday i went to walmart and bought 1400 rounds of 762 by 39 and im gonna buy some more and maybe 2 dozen mags and then a ak and ill be happy. i may be nuts but at least i have my firearms and some ammo and im happy.

[Deadon]

we are all different and that makes none of us wrong or stupid as some here seem to like saying. several years ago i bought several thousand rounds of pmc 223 at $5.99 a box shipped to my house before i even owned a rifle in that caliber. now i have 2 ars a little over 5,000 rounds and i didnt pay higher than 8 bucks a box for any of it and im happy. over the last 2 years i bought about 90,000 rounds of 22 at walmart prices and i and a few other are happy. yesterday i went to walmart and bought 1400 rounds of 762 by 39 and im gonna buy some more and maybe 2 dozen mags and then a ak and ill be happy. i may be nuts but at least i have my firearms and some ammo and im happy.

That's smart but we are seeing people just do it because they don't understand what's going on. So it's driving up ammo for those of us who shoot. No good.

[glock_this]

1. How can some of you guys not be use to this by now? We are YEARS into this topic and you still act surprised and cry about it. Get over it already as it's in play and has been and will be for the foreseeable future. 100th thread on the same ammo crying topic.

2. Why do so many CG guys always act like it's everyone else but them causing this? Did you buy ANY retail ammo in the last 3 years? Great, I'm sure you did, and so you contributed as well. Everyone plays a role. See #1

[MontClaire]

Many people in this country have finally figured out that after food and water, the ammo is the most valuable thing right now.

[retiredAFcop]

we are all different and that makes none of us wrong or stupid as some here seem to like saying.

I hope that I am not coming across as calling anyone stupid for not keeping a good ammo supply on hand.
I was a "hand to mouth" ammo buyer for years.
I also owned more than a safe's worth of guns before I bought my first safe (locked gun cases did the job for a long time).

That doesn't mean that I was "stupid" before, and am "smart" now. It just means that I do things differently now than I did before. When I was still int he military, I moved a lot, and often had to live in small rental units. I didn't always have the space for safes, reloading benches, and shelves of ammunition boxes. I sometimes had to store my firearms in a unit or installation arms room, and could only store ammo in my car's trunk. My shooting mentors were also military people, so also had similar experiences. Due to these factors, I developed certain habits, After my retirement, I started to change my habits to conform to the change in my lifestyle.

Not everyone can afford to have a dedicated storage space for bulk ammunition - even if they have figured out that it is "smart" to do so.

Not everyone has the space for a reloading setup and components - even if they want to reload and think that reloading is the "smart" think to do.

Not everyone has the ability to keep a large, well built safe - even if they can afford one and think it's the "smart" thing to do.

It could be that the extra expense of having a house with space for a reloading setup and shelves of ammunition boxes is greater than the amount I save by buying ammunition and reloading components in bulk - which means I might not be as "smart" as I think I am. What really matters is that I have the ammunition I need to do the things I want )or need) to do with it.

[HOGDOG1955]

i wasnt pointin fingers. just is from comments i see from time to time here. lucky for myself im retired so i can venture to town to walmart early mornings and i am able to spend 5 grand or so per year on ammo. this is stuff i couldnt always do but now i can. i admit i am an evil hoarder and i also know more about the ammpo cases at our 2 walmarts than the employees do,lol,

[golfish]

i wasnt pointin fingers. just is from comments i see from time to time here. lucky for myself im retired so i can venture to town to walmart early mornings and i am able to spend 5 grand or so per year on ammo. this is stuff i couldnt always do but now i can. i admit i am an evil hoarder and i also know more about the ammpo cases at our 2 walmarts than the employees do,lol,

Well sir, it doesn't seem like your a gouger either. I think we all can appreciate you selling some of your rimfire ammo at a decent price..

Enjoy your retirement.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=15906756#post15906756