Is this illegal?? Targetmasters ...

[Straight-shooter]

Before we all jump on the bandwagon that the FFL was mistaken not to perform the PPT, can you please confirm that the seller was a California resident with the proper ID?

If not, then the FFL was correct to apply the roster requirement.

Yes, we have all required docs to fulfill a PPT.

[Marktallica]

Ah yes, Target Masters. Likely they knew it is legal, didn't want to do it, so just bloody lied.

This was my thought, as well. It was midnight, the guy just wanted to go home, so he said whatever he thought would make you go away.

[hyperion.excal]

Private Party Transfer
PC 28050 transfer / Private Party Transfer

California law requires effectively all firearms transfers to go through a CA licensed FFL. (Penal Code Section 27545)

Two individuals may sell to one another, using an FFL as an agent, following the procedure set forth in Penal Code Section 28050. That action is commonly known as a 'Private Party Transfer' or 'PPT'.

The fees are limited by statute (Penal Code Section 28055); the fee is limited to $10 for the dealer and $25 to the State for DROS and other required charges - total THIRTY FIVE (35) dollars and no more.

PPT handgun transactions are exempt from the Handgun Roster.

In almost all places, PPT handgun transactions are exempt from 1 in 30 days.

The buyer in a PPT handgun transaction must have the Handgun Safety Certificate, unless exempt.

PPT transactions are subject to the 10-day wait.

See Buying and selling for the complete article.

source: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Pr...Party_Transfer

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PPT transactions are roster exempt. So even if the CZ you are buying is not on the list it is legal to do it and you should not have been turned down.

[MCox]

AFAIK they are wrong to deny the PPT based on their opinion that it is not legal to transfer a non roster gun between private parties.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am getting a bit tired of these FFL's adding to the infringements and restrictions placed upon us by our government. It's about time to start reporting these FFLs who feel it is alright for them to play fast and loose with the law to suit themselves. Those that add fees to PPTs they are not allowed by law or refusing PPTs.

I say report them, report them all. Then again the DOJ most likely encourages any behavior that deters anyone from buying a firearm. Still I would make an issue of any violation and hound the DOJ for results and updates to a complaint.

Just to clarify most of these FFL's do not want to infringe or restrict, I can't speak for this establishment but your statement that FFL's can't add fees is incorrect. The DROS fee is $25 if an FFL wants to charge more they legally can, they just have to state that the difference is there fee. My shop charges $35 for a private party transfer. Not $35 for a DROS, we make $10 and why would anyone expect us to take our time to do something for free when we could be helping other paying customers? Just sayin!

[GunHo]

File a complaint with DOJ. They need to be schooled.

[sandmanx408]

Just to clarify most of these FFL's do not want to infringe or restrict, I can't speak for this establishment but your statement that FFL's can't add fees is incorrect. The DROS fee is $25 if an FFL wants to charge more they legally can, they just have to state that the difference is there fee. My shop charges $35 for a private party transfer. Not $35 for a DROS, we make $10 and why would anyone expect us to take our time to do something for free when we could be helping other paying customers? Just sayin!

that is fine i am ok with that i understand that they need to make a profit somehow cause it is their labor and etc, but to some places just dont like doing PPts because it is labor and paperwork intensive aka not profitable so it wouldnt surprise me of a shop gave false info and not do a ppt, not saying that happend here.

i dont want to disparage a shop on a forum here, but i have had some downright horrible customer service there, and i have had some downright amazing holy **** your F'ING awesome customer service there, its really hit or miss on the floor person your dealing with

[SkyHawk]

Everyone should go drop them a nice little note on their FB page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Targe...10621688978561

[uhlan1]

Just to clarify most of these FFL's do not want to infringe or restrict, I can't speak for this establishment but your statement that FFL's can't add fees is incorrect. The DROS fee is $25 if an FFL wants to charge more they legally can, they just have to state that the difference is there fee. My shop charges $35 for a private party transfer. Not $35 for a DROS, we make $10 and why would anyone expect us to take our time to do something for free when we could be helping other paying customers? Just sayin!

Because your industry pushed/supported to have PPT's brought through your doors. You wanted the foot traffic, invaluable to retail establishments. But then you foolishly decided "why would anyone expect us to take our time to do something for free when we could be helping other paying customers?"

A professional retailer knows 90% of the battle is getting people to walk through the doors. Why they offer "loss leaders". The PPT is the perfect loss leader because the public is required by law to walk through your doors. No Craigslist, no Amazon, only the LGS. We're 'captive" the greatest potential retail customer there is.

And that is the point that you need to do your job, your real job in a retail establishment. Upsell. Cleaning supplies, mags, ammo, cases, "want us to put night sights on that for you, we're running a special".

Give them a great experience and they come back. I have bought BNIB guns from every LGS that has been a pleasant PPT experience. Many LGS, a PPT was the only means I knew you even existed. Poor service? Blow me off?
Ok, you just blew off a guy who will never set foot in your place again but who spends 1000's a year on BNIB guns, supplies, components and ammo.
Swift move.

Considering your inventory offerings are weak, that the majority of potential retail customers in this state consider you a pariah and will never walk into any LGS, if you were smart, you would try to attract PPT's. "Would you like a bottled water while you wait?"

You're a retailer. You sell widgets. Act like one. Or suffer as so many do, Squeaking out a marginal profit, compelled to pay your employees squat.

[POLICESTATE]

PPT is exempt from the roster. Not sure why the shop turned you away .

I can answer that. Because it was Target Masters.

Or rather Target Disasters.

They will PPT over at Reed's but they have some f'd up storage fees now. I recommend Roger's Relics.

[low67vdubinnocal]

Just a question but does this LGS sell consignment or used firearms ? Quite a few of the handguns I own were either consignment or used and i'm pretty sure not on the roster as of today. How does this LGS sell any used or consignment handguns or is this just another case of LGS not wanting to do PPT.

[Merc1138]

There's over a dozen other ffl's in the area. No need to ever give targetmasters any business.

[heidad01]

Everyone should go drop them a nice little note on their FB page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Targe...10621688978561

^^^
Do This.

I have never been in Target Masters, but even if half of the testimonials stated above are correct, they must be a bunch of cracked out monkeys running this shop.

[Merc1138]

^^^
Do This.

I have never been in Target Masters, but even if half of the testimonials stated above are correct, they must be a bunch of cracked out monkeys running this shop.

It's funny, because I know people who have had just as many crappy incidents at TM over the years as I have, but still insist on going there for some inexplicable reason, when they know there are alternative shops and a range in the area. It's as TM customers have some sort of stockholm syndrome and they can't help but go there. Maybe they think every shop in the area is just as crappy(they aren't, TM is the worst on every level).

[teetsjones]

Just to clarify most of these FFL's do not want to infringe or restrict, I can't speak for this establishment but your statement that FFL's can't add fees is incorrect. The DROS fee is $25 if an FFL wants to charge more they legally can, they just have to state that the difference is there fee. My shop charges $35 for a private party transfer. Not $35 for a DROS, we make $10 and why would anyone expect us to take our time to do something for free when we could be helping other paying customers? Just sayin!

The "extra" fees I was talking about are the excess fees above what DOJ allows. I am well aware of the $10 dealer charge, as some have posted before some dealers charge more than the DROS + $10, as I recall a while back someone was charged an additional $35 for a FTF PPT. My wording was, " add fees to PPTs they are not allowed by law". There have been a few post in the past, where more than $35 was charged for PPTs.

[Mitch]

It's funny, because I know people who have had just as many crappy incidents at TM over the years as I have, but still insist on going there for some inexplicable reason, when they know there are alternative shops and a range in the area. It's as TM customers have some sort of stockholm syndrome and they can't help but go there.

Meanwhile, in the next election, over 80% of Congress will be returned to office.