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It's Here Employee and Contractor Covid Mandatory Vaccinations Update Post 183

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  • jeremiah12
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2013
    • 2065

    This time around the COVID vaccine does not impact children and schools. The EUA is only for 16 and older. 16 and 17 yo are a very low priority unless they have other health issues. Then their doctors will advise them what to do.

    As for the new CA vaccine laws, what do you expect. CA has been passing laws over the years to interfere with parental rights of their children in public schools.

    If you do not like it, put your kids in private school or do home schooling.

    I tell parents this all the time. If your high school student wants to see a doctor without their parents knowing, they just go to their school counselor who makes the appointment and transportation to and from the doctor is provided. Since CA provides free health care to all who are under 18, the state will cover the cost. If the school has your health insurance information, they will bill it and use the privacy laws to prevent your health insurance from informing you.

    This is how abortions are provided to pregnant teens without parent knowledge or consent. If I a student tells me about it, I cannot inform the parent without student consent, or I will loose my job and credential.

    That is one reason why I want to leave this state. I qualify for early retirement..

    Districts have continued with distance learning even though the state has changed the rules so that if a county was previously orange and planned for in-school learning, they could proceed with in-school learning even if their county went back to purple. Districts could impose this on teachers after a good faith attempt to negotiate the conditions with the union as long as safety procedures were in place. Money has already been released to districts to implement safety procedures. I have all the PPE in my classroom as of the end of October.

    The reason is simple, the average age of teachers in CA is about 45. The average age of science, math, and English teachers combined is about 54.

    State-wide, the conservative estimate is (based on polling of teachers in various school districts) mandating in person teaching will result in about 20% of teachers state-wide retiring. About 15% of all teaching positions in CA are currently filled by long-term substitutes, meaning those students get a new teacher every 30 days because state law, due to a settlement under the Williams Act requires a substitute can only be in the same classroom no more than 30 days in a year. If that is violated, parents can sue the district.

    Because teachers are considered state employees, we are covered under state rules and have been granted generous leave of absence benefits, Family Medical Leave Benefits (for self or to care for family members affected by COVID including children doing home instruction) and early retirement benefits thanks to our Governor. So, teachers can get a note from their doctor stating they fall in a CDC defined high risk category and get paid time off if the district tries to force them to return to the classroom.

    What district will pay a teacher to not work and then pay a sub to cover the class especially when they cannot find enough subs right now to cover classes for teachers who are out during distance learning?

    If a teacher takes advantage of early retirement, the district has to pay the extra into CalSTRS.

    On top of this, the state has paid 49% of this years budget to schools in the form of an IOU payable next year assuming that taxes come in as planned and Prop 15 passed. If not, then next years budget will likely be paid in an IOU.

    I turned in my doctor's note because I fit into 4 CDC categories for being high risk. I am willing to go back to in-person teaching though.

    I have to consider myself though. Education sucks now. Students run the show and parents blame teachers for everything. If my district went back to in-person, I can put in my retirement, get this year and next year added as credit and move out of state and not have to pay income tax on the retirement. My wife will retire with full benefits after one more year. She can do the same since she just turned 60 and she lives with me.

    We already are planning to move to Wyoming to be near to our son. I can get a teaching job in science with my credential and earn a higher salary than CA because I have two graduate degrees and I do not have to put up with the BS. I have already applied for 5 open positions for next year.

    My school board sent out a survey a while back. In our district, 25% will retire and another 15% will take a leave of absence or resign if they go back to in-person classes. They have a meeting scheduled to vote to extend online classes through the end of the school year at the end of January.
    Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians.

    A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun.

    Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

    --Librarian

    Comment

    • jeremiah12
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 2065

      Originally posted by ll-Rafael-ll
      People all across the country need to put their foot on the ground and hold their line. DO NOT let these tyrants cross it or get their way.

      I heard someone say that, during moments like these, we the people are as strong as we'll ever be, and they the enemy are as weak as they will ever be. Do not let them fool you into thinking otherwise.
      The problem is there are at least 60% willing to get the vaccine right now if the polls are correct. I saw my doctor last week and he has a sign up in his office that said the vaccine is not available and he would contact his high risk patients as soon as it was available.

      I believe that people should be able to make informed choices and part of that includes deciding after discussing with your doctor.

      The Pfizer vaccine has enough side-effects to cause me concern so I am waiting to see the results of the Moderna vaccine before I decide.

      I will get a vaccine if I decide the benefits outweigh the risks. In general, vaccines work. That is why smallpox has been eradicated from this world. It is why we no longer deal with polio in the US. I grew up when it was common to see people affected by polio. I knew several people in iron lungs. My allergist when I was in elementary school was in an iron lung.

      When I was a kid in school, I had a friend die from complications due to measles. His parents would have given almost anything to have been able to have him vaccinated against measles.

      As a kid, I had mumps and had to be hospitalized because the swelling cut off my airway. I was miserable. My two youngest siblings never had to go through that, the vaccine came out by then.

      How many here are getting the shingles vaccine? Ask anyone who has had shingles. It is miserable and it can last a long time. My wife has a friend who has been dealing with it for 8 months and it is along her spine and has radiated out along the nerves of both shoulders. She cannot sleep on her back. She refused the shingles vaccine when it was offered. She now wishes she had taken it.

      I had shingles when I was 42. It was no fun. My insurance will not pay for the vaccine until I am 60. I paid for it so I could get it when I was 55. It is good for 10 years.
      Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians.

      A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun.

      Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

      --Librarian

      Comment

      • anthonyca
        Calguns Addict
        • May 2008
        • 6316

        Originally posted by Citadelgrad87
        Its NOT an employer, its a customer.
        Correct. Other people are turning this into all kinds of things I never said.


        I know Citadelgrad gets it but for anyone who is mistaken or confused.

        We are not requiring employees to get vaccinated but they will not be able to work at this site, (probably more sites in the future).

        The employees can be laid off due to lack of work if thier personal choice to not get vaccinated makes them slow. The union said they will have no recourse legally or or per the contract.

        My personal opinion, it's thier property and business. We can abide by thier wishes or chose to not work there. Enough of my guys actually want the vaccine so they will use this as a chance to get it before the general public. A couple guys opted out and that is thier right as far as I am concerned.

        I brought this up just to inform people. This will probably be a slippery slope as there are already calls for airlines, Uber, Hotels, grocery stores etc to implement the same things.
        Last edited by anthonyca; 12-29-2020, 1:49 PM.
        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Union...70812799700206

        Originally posted by Wherryj
        I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

        Comment

        • sigstroker
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Jan 2009
          • 19558

          Once again, the stupid thing is that if all the workers and all the residents are vaccinated, what do they care how many people that may or may not be infected work on their place?

          Comment

          • HibikiR
            Senior Member
            • May 2014
            • 2417

            Originally posted by diveRN
            Nothing new here. Ever wonder why so many current nurses and doctors are from New Zealand, the Philippines, Pakistan, and India? His "immigration strategy" has been around since the '80s. You can speculate about qualifications all day long, but in the end, they still have to pass the US licensing exam (NCLEX) in order to practice here.

            But you're probably right, Biden would take credit for doing it.
            I was suggesting that only a fraction of them would be actual RNs with the intention to get licensed and practice, the rest would just be abusing the system to get citizenship and become future Democrat voters.

            I'm also suggesting that quitting just because you want to virtue signal just makes it easier for Biden to convince people that he's right.
            Last edited by HibikiR; 12-29-2020, 3:26 PM.

            Comment

            • freonr22
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Dec 2008
              • 12945

              As far as verifying,
              Most General Contractors use 3rd party like Vendormate, etc. Or like Stanford, they use another, to provide sute acces once that particular employee does the TB, Flu Vax etc.
              sigpic
              Originally posted by dantodd
              We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
              Originally posted by bwiese
              They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
              Originally posted by louisianagirl
              Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.

              Comment

              • BrokerB
                Calguns Addict
                • Sep 2010
                • 5297

                I'm still wondering how they address millions of us who got KungFlu.. survived easily and wont get it again not can spread it?
                Beans and Bullets

                Comment

                • Cali-Glock
                  In Memoriam
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 3890

                  Originally posted by anthonyca

                  Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
                  Its NOT an employer, its a customer.
                  Correct. Other people are turning this into all kinds of things I never said.


                  I know Citadelgrad gets it but for anyone who is mistaken or confused.

                  We are not requiring employees to get vaccinated but they will not be able to work at this site, (probably more sites in the future).

                  The employees can be laid off due to lack of work if thier personal choice to not get vaccinated makes them slow. The union said they will have no recourse legally or or per the contract.

                  My personal opinion, it's thier property and business. We can abide by thier wishes or chose to not work there. Enough of my guys actually want the vaccine so they will use this as a chance to get it before the general public. A couple guys opted out and that is thier right as far as I am concerned.

                  I brought this up just to inform people. This will probably be a slippery slope as there are already calls for airlines, Uber, Hotels, grocery stores etc to implement the same things.

                  Yes, but here is the rub:

                  As a business you: AnthonyCA requires that your vendors implement various programs in order to do business with you:
                  1. Implement a drug and alcohol program that several here (and my employer's lawyer) say is not legal in California, but which you are legally obligated to follow due to your Federal contracts and the same requirement you are legally obligated to pass down to your vendors.
                  2. Only send employees who have proof of having received a COVID-19 vaccination.
                  3. ... etc...


                  So as owner of Cali-Glock industries I want to do business with you, or perhaps I am already doing business with you and want to keep your business by meeting the new standards that you might throw at me at any given time.

                  Now it is an employer-employee issue: As an employer if I want to keep providing you with services I have to require that my employees get COVID-19 vaccinations and in this example also to implement a drug and alcohol program that is not legal in California.

                  COVID-19 Vaccines:If things continue the direction they are going I figure in a year my employer will have millions of dollars of current contracts that will now require that our employees all receive COVID vaccines, and most new contracts for large firms will require bidders to prove their employees have all received the COVID vaccine.

                  As an sidebar...

                  Drug Programs:

                  As others have pointed out certain substance abuse programs are not legal in California; what do you do when your customer says meet this standard or else?

                  At work I have line managers who have been calling and emailing, making me the scape goat for losing a particular six-figure a year account. It boils down to our substance abuse program. I have nothing to do creating or maintaining our substance abuse program but I am nominally responsible for helping our branches meet their customer vendor standards. I have been telling them about this drug and alcohol issue for years but it does not matter - they are understandably ticked off losing this customer and wondering how other companies are able to meet this standard... My answer: The only way way will meet this standard for your customer is to lie, which is how most of our competitors are meeting many of these crazy standards anyway - just don't ask me to lie, because I won't.

                  So we lose yet another client and someone else who is willing to lie gets the business.

                  If you know what ISN, Avetta and their competitor companies are you have my sympathies. I'll never forget coming up on the Avetta booth at a trade show: I stood there for several minutes trying to decide what I was going to do:
                  1. Walk past the booth
                  2. Stop and have a nice chat with the folks at the booth
                  3. Stop and tell the folks at the booth things that would make their product more palatable for vendors like myself
                  4. Stop and unload semi-loads full of excrement upon those freaking idiots


                  I stood there a long time.... I finally made up my mind and changed directions as not to have to walk past their booth.
                  1 Corinthians 2:2

                  "Orwell was an Optimist" - Cali-Glock
                  "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Mal Reynolds

                  Freedom Week: March 29-April 6, 2019 // Freedom Day: April 23-24, 2020 - Thank you, Judge Benitez!
                  NRA - Endowment Member // CRPA - Life Member (Disclaimer: Everything I write is fiction. I am just here to try out ideas for my to-be-written great-American-novel.)

                  Comment

                  • capo
                    Veteran Member
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 4756

                    Originally posted by sigstroker
                    Once again, the stupid thing is that if all the workers and all the residents are vaccinated, what do they care how many people that may or may not be infected work on their place?
                    You appear to have built at least three assumptions into your question.

                    1) Vaccinations generate acquired immunity all the time.
                    2) All workers can and will be vaccinated.
                    3) All residents can and will be vaccinated.

                    Assumption one is absolutely false.

                    This isn't to say I agree with the decision making of this business, merely that they have the right to make it. They don't appear to be arbitrarily setting policy, they've looked at the set of facts before them and have chosen how they want to move forward. Anyone who doesn't agree doesn't have to conduct business with them or reside there.

                    Seems simple enough, they have their choice to make and so do you. Individual rights are retained.
                    Last edited by capo; 12-29-2020, 7:09 PM.

                    Comment

                    • priusron
                      Junior Member
                      • Jan 2016
                      • 63

                      Originally posted by gobler
                      Religious Objection. SCOTUS ruled long ago that it's unconstitutional to force based on this. The company can be sued for 1st Amendment rights violations.
                      Colorado has decided that religious exemption will not apply to the COVID vaccine. I expect other states will too. I have my form ready to print out as proof that I received it.

                      Comment

                      • Califpatriot
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 2438

                        Originally posted by Cali-Glock
                        There is no way to waive WC.

                        .
                        I didn't read the rest of your post but it seems like this is a failure of imagination. There is a way to waive workers comp if the legislature was to change the statute (or congress did it under its commerce power authority.)

                        "notwithstanding any other provision of law, no individual shall be entitled to receive benefits under a state workman's compensation scheme due to COVID-19 or related conditions if the individual was eligible for a covid-19 vaccination and declined the vaccination."

                        There are absolutely ways to balance legitimate interests of businesses and that of citizens' bodily autonomy. It just seems few care to do so.
                        In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice.

                        Comment

                        • AregularGuy
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jan 2013
                          • 2792

                          Originally posted by SactoDoug
                          It is a convalescent home. That is one of the most vulnerable populations. I think it is reasonable for them to require it and let the market dictate the price they pay. If no one wants to take the job, they will have to rethink their requirement.
                          How long does it take for the vaccine to "kick in" after taking it? The flu shot takes what, two weeks before you have any protection? The Covid vaccine, Pfizer version at least, is 3 weeks between the first and second injection. How long after that do you develop some protection? Before that time you are no better off than unvaccinated persons. So all employees have to wait a month or two before they can start working on this job? What if they need HVAC service immediatley?
                          All posts dedicated to the memory of Stronzo Bestiale

                          "You want my sister but now scam my Glocks too?
                          How about my sister? what can she do now? Still virgin and need Glcok."

                          ---ARegularGuy

                          NRA Patron Member

                          Comment

                          • freonr22
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 12945

                            Originally posted by AregularGuy
                            How long does it take for the vaccine to "kick in" after taking it? The flu shot takes what, two weeks before you have any protection? The Covid vaccine, Pfizer version at least, is 3 weeks between the first and second injection. How long after that do you develop some protection? Before that time you are no better off than unvaccinated persons. So all employees have to wait a month or two before they can start working on this job? What if they need HVAC service immediatley?
                            Skilled Nursing facilities, the 30 i have have been in, have THE WORST INDOOR AIR QUALITY i have seen in my 30 years. Zero outside air.
                            Uet ther Is a great business model to imprive them. If we were going to work there, it would behoove us to get the vax
                            sigpic
                            Originally posted by dantodd
                            We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
                            Originally posted by bwiese
                            They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
                            Originally posted by louisianagirl
                            Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.

                            Comment

                            • anthonyca
                              Calguns Addict
                              • May 2008
                              • 6316

                              Originally posted by freonr22
                              Skilled Nursing facilities, the 30 i have have been in, have THE WORST INDOOR AIR QUALITY i have seen in my 30 years. Zero outside air.
                              Uet ther Is a great business model to imprive them. If we were going to work there, it would behoove us to get the vax
                              This is a whole other issue and you are correct. Skilled nursing facilities, hotel meeting rooms, gyms, and resteraunts often have the absolute worst air quality. No outside air, mold, you don't even want to know. Outnof n site, out of mind.
                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Union...70812799700206

                              Originally posted by Wherryj
                              I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

                              Comment

                              • AregularGuy
                                Veteran Member
                                • Jan 2013
                                • 2792

                                Originally posted by freonr22
                                Skilled Nursing facilities, the 30 i have have been in, have THE WORST INDOOR AIR QUALITY i have seen in my 30 years. Zero outside air.
                                Uet ther Is a great business model to imprive them. If we were going to work there, it would behoove us to get the vax
                                Originally posted by anthonyca
                                This is a whole other issue and you are correct. Skilled nursing facilities, hotel meeting rooms, gyms, and resteraunts often have the absolute worst air quality. No outside air, mold, you don't even want to know. Outnof n site, out of mind.

                                Couldn't be worse than Targetmasters!
                                All posts dedicated to the memory of Stronzo Bestiale

                                "You want my sister but now scam my Glocks too?
                                How about my sister? what can she do now? Still virgin and need Glcok."

                                ---ARegularGuy

                                NRA Patron Member

                                Comment

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