Randomized Controlled Study shows that HCQ not a preventive

[smashycrashy]

HCQ, still not a thing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/03/hydroxychloroquine-clinical-trial-results/

[balgor]

Good the UMN is finally releasing results. Given how all the prior non-controlled studies clustered around no-effect I'm not surprised.

[Den60]

No mention that zinc was included in the "study."

[sd_shooter]

Well, bummer

Researchers launched the trial in mid-March. They enrolled more than 800 adults in the United States and Canada who were exposed to someone with covid-19 because of their jobs as health-care workers or first responders, or because they lived with someone with the disease. The study was a randomized, placebo-controlled trial and was double-blinded, meaning neither the participants nor the researchers knew what the participants received. Such a study is considered the gold standard for clinical trials.

No mention that zinc was included in the "study."

It does say this, but it's likely that they were just asking whether people _happened_ to be taking Zinc

There was no benefit for people who also took zinc or vitamin C, the researchers said.

[theLBC]

HCQ was never touted (that i know of) as something that prevents you from testing positive after exposure.
how many of the 800 ended up on a vent and died?

[sbo80]

yea this is the first I ever heard someone say HCQ was supposed to keep you from catching it. What idiot thought that? Everything I've read says supposedly it helps reduce symptoms/reactions so you don't die. A treatment not a prevention.

[Creampuff]

HCQ was never touted (that i know of) as something that prevents you from testing positive after exposure.
how many of the 800 ended up on a vent and died?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638?articleTools=true

Because there was such a push to rush things out, the study does admit the results are based on symptom severity and not PCR and serologic study. Remember back in March and April testing was not as easily available. And these were already health care worker exposed to covid19, the last thing we needed for them to do was drive around and find testing centers.

There will be more studies results coming out through this month. So wait and see. But we can't have it both ways. If we want them to hurry up and find the results, this is the studies we will get, somewhat rushed studies. But it is double blind, and that helps.

If you have severe symptoms that's when you start considering hospitalization so it does go hand in hand. But one can never "assume" when it comes to studies, so we will have to wait for more to come out. These are healthier younger people involved in the study. 400lb 40 year olds and 80 year olds tend not to be your typical health care worker

Among participants who were
symptomatic at day 14, the median symptomseverity score (on a scale from 0 to 10, with higher
scores indicating greater severity) was 2.8 (interquartile range, 1.6 to 5.0) in those receiving hydroxychloroquine and 2.7 (interquartile range,
1.4 to 4.8) in those receiving placebo (P=0.34)

[smashycrashy]

yea this is the first I ever heard someone say HCQ was supposed to keep you from catching it. What idiot thought that?

You must be new here, Have you met sd_shooter & theLBC (among others).. they personify the quality you are looking for:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1615935&highlight=prophylactic

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=24199288&postcount=13

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=24152024&postcount=1

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=24228504&postcount=1

Everything I've read says supposedly it helps reduce symptoms/reactions so you don't die. A treatment not a prevention.

It has shown efficacy as neither.

[balgor]

yea this is the first I ever heard someone say HCQ was supposed to keep you from catching it. What idiot thought that? Everything I've read says supposedly it helps reduce symptoms/reactions so you don't die. A treatment not a prevention.

A certain leader of a large country said that he took it prophylactically.....

[Creampuff]

yea this is the first I ever heard someone say HCQ was supposed to keep you from catching it. What idiot thought that? Everything I've read says supposedly it helps reduce symptoms/reactions so you don't die. A treatment not a prevention.

Many on this forum state that people in medicine treat studies like they are the Bible or Holy Grail, and thus declareth God. Nope, the only Bible I have is the good ol KJV. Studies open doors and they close doors behind postulated theories.

The theory was hydroxychloroquine is a preventative route to take. Based on this last study maybe not. It might have closed the door on prophylaxis for young able body people. But it might have opened the door for someone else to say, but what about for treatment?

What about for prevention for patients with comorbidity?
What about treatment for certain patients with genetic ACEII markers?
What about prevention of death?
etc...
You get the idea. More doors open some doors close. That's the way it goes.

[seal20]

Hey smasherbasher... Go protest...

[balgor]

Many on this forum state that people in medicine treat studies like they are the Bible or Holy Grail, and thus declareth God. Nope, the only Bible I have is the good ol KJV. Studies open doors and they close doors behind postulated theories.

The theory was hydroxychloroquine is a preventative route to take. Based on this last study maybe not. It might have closed the door on prophylaxis for young able body people. But it might have opened the door for someone else to say, but what about for treatment?

What about for prevention for patients with comorbidity?
What about treatment for certain patients with genetic ACEII markers?
What about prevention of death?
etc...
You get the idea. More doors open some doors close. That's the way it goes.

You are correct that this study is not generalizable to other populations and it was not used as a treatment in this study (UNM has a treatment study). However, it strongly suggests that if it did not have a prophylactic effect in a relatively young healthy population with strong immune systems it will almost certainly not have a prophylactic effect on an older sicker population with weak immune systems.

[Creampuff]

You are correct that this study is not generalizable to other populations. However, it strongly suggests that if it did not have a prophylactic effect in a relatively young healthy population with strong immune systems it will almost certainly not have a prophylactic effect on an older sicker population with weak immune systems.

From what I've seen it likely won't be of much benefit for the comorbidity segment, but I was just playing the devil's advocate. And historically studies that have made assumptions, have regretted some of their assumptions.

[Den60]

A certain leader of a large country said that he took it prophylactically.....

So, his doctor and his choice. You do realize that HCL taken as a malarial prophylactic does not guarantee you will not get the disease, right. I don't recall anyone on here calling HCL with zinc and Zpac to be a form of vaccine. What I have read is that it can reduce symptoms and keep the disease from taking off if used in the early stages.

[Den60]

Well, bummer




It does say this, but it's likely that they were just asking whether people _happened_ to be taking Zinc

Don't see that in the actual report.