Caldor Fire explodes

[Cali-Glock]

This is going to hit reno before we know it.

You guys are getting the worst of the smoke pretty much. I did not check the www.airnow.gov yet... (checking it) Wow.



The PM2.5 Air Quality Index was up over 600 in some NorCal communities yesterday. The evaluation chart ends at 500. The question was asked:: "Can we keep working? (outside.) - Answer: No... let's review the Wildfire Smoke training again.

(PM2.5 is the particulate matter in smoke that makes it hazardous.)

Dang - that is the direction of the wind. I know (hope) you were kidding... don't say things like that!

[user120312]

I just got an escort in to the sly park area. For starters, no, I won't say how or with who, rules were bent.
But... The zoom.earth map is WRONG. It shows Sierra springs on fire, and it breaching sly park road. THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

Thanks for the report, good to read. From what I can see, they stopped the forward progress east of Sly Park Road and much of the Virrs in that area is stale and the circles drawn around the points can be misleading. GOES is showing very little active fire along that front and those images are usually 10-20 minutes old. With the winds forecasted during the day, I hope the west side holds the line. Looks like it should. I see a bit of a flare up in the Grizzly Flat/Mt Aukum road area to the south but the structure population down there is much less. Best wishes!

[spegull03]

[Cali-Glock]

Thanks for the report, good to read. From what I can see, they stopped the forward progress east of Sly Park Road and much of the Virrs in that area is stale and the circles drawn around the points can be misleading. GOES is showing very little active fire along that front and those images are usually 10-20 minutes old. With the winds forecasted during the day, I hope the west side holds the line. Looks like it should. I see a bit of a flare up in the Grizzly Flat/Mt Aukum road area to the south but the structure population down there is much less. Best wishes!

The Zoom Earth map shows smoke and other stuff as heat which results in those alarming images. It is more complex that that... but yes it is misleading. Elsewhere I had someone give a pretty detailed technical explanation for what Zoom Earth maps are showing and why. If I stumble across it again, I'll post that explanation here.

[Deadon]

You guys are getting the worst of the smoke pretty much. I did not check the www.airnow.gov yet... (checking it) Wow.



The PM2.5 Air Quality Index was up over 600 in some NorCal communities yesterday. The evaluation chart ends at 500. The question was asked:: "Can we keep working? (outside.) - Answer: No... let's review the Wildfire Smoke training again.

(PM2.5 is the particulate matter in smoke that makes it hazardous.)

Dang - that is the direction of the wind. I know (hope) you were kidding... don't say things like that!

They canceled school the last two days and said come back today. I declined and left a message with the air quality and it's about the same as the last two days. These people are trippin. I finished my exhaust today and felt like I couldn't breath. Think about having to wear a mask as a kid with the heat and smoke.

[user120312]

The Zoom Earth map shows smoke and other stuff as heat which results in those alarming images. It is more complex that that... but yes it is misleading.

Ah, I've never tried that site, I see what you mean. I've been using direct GOES satellite info and/or mapping apps that collate GOES and Viirs/Modis imagery and reported fire data. Interesting site though, will add and explore, thanks.
ETA, ruh roh, just spotted another one down near Sonora/Angels Camp and New Melones reservoir. Added fire history and structures to the map. Oh, my.

https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.04241,-120.46818&z=11&b=om&a=structures%2Cfire%2Cmodis_g%2Cwxd_wgust-01

Picture of early start from Sonora fire cam....

https://i.imgur.com/sOoWMYc.png

Hope they don't dawdle on it. Update, air assets are all over it...

[Cali-Glock]

And to think ten and eleven days ago when people were yelling for something to be done, the National Forest Service told us not to worry about it and let it keep burning.

Part of the above story is the claim that Calfire could not get on the fire because the USNF has jurisdiction and said let it burn (or some such) and not to worry about it

Official Denial:
At the 5pm Calfire Briefing they brought up this issue and categorically denied these accusations and said from day one both Calfire and USNF were working together to put out this fire and that they have inter-agency agreements allowing them to work in each others jurisdictions.

...I don't doubt the inter-agency agreements, or the general cooperation between CalFire and USNF, but I would love to learn the details as to exactly what was done during the first hours and days of this incident.

Crap and I have work to do and promised to go to bed early...

[JagerDog]

Part of the above story is the claim that Calfire could not get on the fire because the USNF has jurisdiction and said let it burn (or some such) and not to worry about it

Official Denial:
At the 5pm Calfire Briefing they brought up this issue and categorically denied these accusations and said from day one both Calfire and USNF were working together to put out this fire and that they have inter-agency agreements allowing them to work in each others jurisdictions.

...I don't doubt the inter-agency agreements, or the general cooperation between CalFire and USNF, but I would love to learn the details as to exactly what was done during the first hours and days of this incident.

Crap and I have work to do and promised to go to bed early...

The logical answer is it's about remuneration. Don't want to throw too many resources at a fire until the Feds authorize payment. In the meantime the required assets goes up a thousandfold and citizens lose in many arenas. Property, mental anguish, public funds, public access, environment and sometimes life itself.

A big fat failure of gov't in general.

[Cali-Glock]

Ah, I've never tried that site, I see what you mean. I've been using direct GOES satellite info and/or mapping apps that collate GOES and Viirs/Modis imagery and reported fire data. Interesting site though, will add and explore, thanks.
ETA, ruh roh, just spotted another one down near Sonora/Angels Camp and New Melones reservoir. Added fire history and structures to the map. Oh, my.

https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.04241,-120.46818&z=11&b=om&a=structures%2Cfire%2Cmodis_g%2Cwxd_wgust-01

Picture of early start from Sonora fire cam....

https://i.imgur.com/sOoWMYc.png

Hope they don't dawdle on it. Update, air assets are all over it...

Very dark humor, but does New Melones Reservoir have enough water to fight anything bigger than a burn pile?

[Pinto]

Very dark humor, but does New Melones Reservoir have enough water to fight anything bigger than a burn pile?

I just drove over the Parrotts Ferry Bridge on Monday where this fire is and NO. I've never seen the reservoir this low. Even a burn pile would be touch and go.

The Calaveras County Sheriff's Office issued evacuation orders for all of Parrots Ferry Road from the Tuolumne/Calaveras County line at Parrots Ferry Bridge to Highway 4, including Moaning Cavern and Camp Nine Road areas as well as East of Red Hill Road to Parrots Ferry Road.

Evacuation warnings were in effect for Murphys and Douglas Flat, Sgt. Greg Stark with the Calaveras County Sheriff’s Office said.

You can see how low the waterline is from normal.

[user120312]

Very dark humor, but does New Melones Reservoir have enough water to fight anything bigger than a burn pile?

Humor noted, and I do see only one helicopter so your assessment is likely correct. They'll be sucking up tin cans and old Playboys off the bottom.

[Pinto]

Humor noted, and I do see only one helicopter so your assessment is likely correct. They'll be sucking up tin cans and old Playboys off the bottom.

Hey don't laugh. That's close to where I had my tragic boating accident.

[user120312]

Oops. I hope CG'ers planned for record low water years.

[Tarmy]

[Cali-Glock]

Part of the above story is the claim that Calfire could not get on the fire because the USNF has jurisdiction and said let it burn (or some such) and not to worry about it

Official Denial:
At the 5pm Calfire Briefing they brought up this issue and categorically denied these accusations and said from day one both Calfire and USNF were working together to put out this fire and that they have inter-agency agreements allowing them to work in each others jurisdictions.

...I don't doubt the inter-agency agreements, or the general cooperation between CalFire and USNF, but I would love to learn the details as to exactly what was done during the first hours and days of this incident.

Crap and I have work to do and promised to go to bed early...

The logical answer is it's about remuneration. Don't want to throw too many resources at a fire until the Feds authorize payment. In the meantime the required assets goes up a thousandfold and citizens lose in many arenas. Property, mental anguish, public funds, public access, environment and sometimes life itself.

A big fat failure of gov't in general.

I just got off the phone with my buddy who lives just off Caldor Road and who stayed up on the hill until yesterday.

I picked his brain about the start of the Fire.

Saturday 8/14: He personally called USFS Saturday about the fire and they told him not to worry.

Sunday 8/15: He called USFS on got a voice mail and left a message - they called him back Tuesday.

Monday 8/16: He and his wife walked down Caldor and there was one CalFire command vehicle. He spoke to the guy and asked what the deal was. He said the CalFire guy gave him a bit of a mini-rant about the CalFire/USFS politics and said something like "screw this political BS, in the morning I am going to bring in our crews and tractors and cut a huge line" -and went on to describe what he planned to do in the morning. Several hours later of course the fire blew up and through Grizzly.

My buddy also recounted the story about other locals talking to the USFS crews on Saturday or Sunday and asking why they were sitting in their trucks, and the crews told them they were told not to go down and fight the fire, but to wait until it got up to them.

I told him what was said at this evening's Caldor Fire Community meeting about CalFire/USFS cooperation and the claim they were working on scene on day one and my buddy lost it.