Buckshot vs Birdshot for HD . . . Here we go again.

[SacTown]

No crap, but would it stop the deer from attacking you?

I would hope a deer isn't attacking you... But would bird shot stop bubba weighing in at 250 pounds pumped up on PCP? Have you ever seen someone doped up on drugs like PCP? Imagine someone in this guy's state of mind breaking into your home looking for money/drugs in the middle of the night.

[ZombieTactics]

No crap, but would it stop the deer from attacking you?

Not physically.

Deer tend to be skittish creatures, and run away at even the crack of small twigs being broken. That's because they are prey animals.

Certainly some percentage of 2-legged predators will be dissuaded by a loud boom, and another percentage will not. The latter group forms a significant enough set, that any rational plan considers that the "standard model" for evaluating a reliable solution.

I can't think of an actual downside to using #4, #1 or 00 buckshot, based upon anything but raw conjecture. All of them produce loud booms for scaring away deer and the smarter predators. All of them produce sufficient wounding effects to cause rapid incapacitation. Whether 20-gauge or 12-gauge, they are available in combination suitable to different sized defenders. The realistic risk of over penetration is almost zero.

If there is a sensible reason for using birdshot, I've yet to hear it.

[ChuckDizzle]

I would hope a deer isn't attacking you... But would bird shot stop bubba weighing in at 250 pounds pumped up on PCP? Have you ever seen someone doped up on drugs like PCP?

And here comes the obligatory addition of obscure conditions...let's keep it in the generalities. We have all heard stories of the indestructible golem who just keeps walking through (it was .38 SPC back in the day) an incredible number of 9mm shots etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97sjv11yesc

Is it ideal? It is hard to find what is ideal for all situations, but if I was a woman, or elderly and I did not feel comfortable with buckshot, or I was extremely concerned with over-penetration, I would still pick a shotgun loaded for bird over any of my pistols when it comes to home defense.

[AAShooter]

And here comes the obligatory addition of obscure conditions...let's keep it in the generalities. We have all heard stories of the indestructible golem who just keeps walking through (it was .38 SPC back in the day) an incredible number of 9mm shots etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97sjv11yesc

Is it ideal? It is hard to find what is ideal for all situations, but if I was a woman, or elderly and I did not feel comfortable with buckshot, or I was extremely concerned with over-penetration, I would still pick a shotgun loaded for bird over any of my pistols when it comes to home defense.

Watching that video, I was set to break out the smoker with that pork butt and ribs . . . until he shot them.

[ChuckDizzle]

Watching that video, I was set to break out the smoker with that pork butt and ribs . . . until he shot them.

When I lived in North Carolina I think one of the few strict gun laws they had was to never desecrate good pork to prove a point about birdshot lol.

[AAShooter]

When I lived in North Carolina I think one of the few strict gun laws they had was to never desecrate good pork to prove a point about birdshot lol.

One I might even support.

[SacTown]

And here comes the obligatory addition of obscure conditions...let's keep it in the generalities. We have all heard stories of the indestructible golem who just keeps walking through (it was .38 SPC back in the day) an incredible number of 9mm shots etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97sjv11yesc

Is it ideal? It is hard to find what is ideal for all situations, but if I was a woman, or elderly and I did not feel comfortable with buckshot, or I was extremely concerned with over-penetration, I would still pick a shotgun loaded for bird over any of my pistols when it comes to home defense.

I just like to know that when I'm using lethal force in a self defense situation, the lethality is instantaneous and not 5 - 10 minutes after the fact. But then again this is just my opinion and I respect yours as well.

[Lugiahua]

Just think about this, if even a guaranteed 14in penetration bullet sometimes failed to stop the attacker, what makes you think birdshot pallets that could only reach 6 in or less would be effective for the same?

If over-penetration is really a problem in your residence, I suggest you getting a 20in barrel .223 rifle with M193 type ammo.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

As soon as someone shows me video of a ballistic gel encased heart and rib cage, covered in sweatshirt, getting shot with birdshot such that multiple pellets go through the heart I'll switch to birdshot for defense.

I would also tentatively accept a large hole to the lungs provided that the wound to the lungs is such that at least one lung would almost immediately fill with fluid and/or permanently deflate.

Well said. Until then, if I'm using a shotgun for personal defense of any sort, it's buckshot from 12-18 yards, slugs after that. Below you will see what 3 rounds of Remington Slugger from my current PD shotgun group like at 25 yards; I think it will do to change the mind of the bad guy. I'll take that against birdshot any day. Birdshot is for birds.

[RudyCakes]

Small buckshot. Penetration is key.

[ZombieTactics]

And here comes the obligatory addition of obscure conditions...let's keep it in the generalities. We have all heard stories of the indestructible golem who just keeps walking through (it was .38 SPC back in the day) an incredible number of 9mm shots etc.

Hmm, haven't heard of any Golem attacks lately, and precious few deer attacks. On the other hand, we hear of (and have video in many cases) of determined attackers who are not dissuaded by loud noises and flesh wounds.

Let's please not conflate fantasy with reality.

Is it ideal? It is hard to find what is ideal for all situations, but if I was a woman, or elderly and I did not feel comfortable with buckshot, or I was extremely concerned with over-penetration, I would still pick a shotgun loaded for bird over any of my pistols when it comes to home defense.

You'd be better in every case by simply choosing a smaller gauge shotgun. My wife has Multiple Sclerosis, and almost no upper body strength to speak of. She cannot handle a 12, but the 20 is right in her wheelhouse. Rather than going with "feelings" about what one might be "comfortable" with ... how about we concentrate on advocating solutions with a higher probability of success across a wider range of real-world situations?

[AAShooter]

. . .

Let's please not conflate fantasy with reality.

. . .

[ChuckDizzle]

Nice grouping grumpy. What type of sight were you using? I tried some red-dot stuff on my Mossberg, but ended up going back to a simple bead sight.

[ChuckDizzle]

Hmm, haven't heard of any Golem attacks lately, and precious few deer attacks. On the other hand, we hear of (and have video in many cases) of determined attackers who are not dissuaded by loud noises and flesh wounds.

Let's please not conflate fantasy with reality.



You'd be better in every case by simply choosing a smaller gauge shotgun. My wife has Multiple Sclerosis, and almost no upper body strength to speak of. She cannot handle a 12, but the 20 is right in her wheelhouse. Rather than going with "feelings" about what one might be "comfortable" with ... how about we concentrate on advocating solutions with a higher probability of success across a wider range of real-world situations?

Real talk, a lot of people have been killed by bird shot. Real talk, most attackers cease attacking after being shot with any caliber firearm.

[therealnickb]

Real talk, a lot of people have been killed by bird shot. Real talk, most attackers cease attacking after being shot with any caliber firearm.

Document please.