Buckshot vs Birdshot for HD . . . Here we go again.

[6114DAVE]

Buckshot for sure ...birdshot?! What are you guys trying to do tickle your attacker?! ..........

.....

[Excelsior]

I've seen the video several times. It (unfortunately) gets offered up as "evidence" or "science", far too often, by people who have no idea what either word really means.

It's an "empirical test" of shooting a piece of dead meat.

Here's Jeff's biography from his own website:


He's a really neat guy, but is that your idea of a ballistics expert? On what basis does Jeff propose that these "tests" are anything but a bunch of homespun entertainment?

Now, how about you try this for a challenge: Name some acknowledged authorities (with actual credentials) who support your position.

He shot some pork with a 12ga/#8 wrapped in denim at 21' which his brother videoed. He showed the (extensive) damage to the pork. Once more, a great empirical test.

I love simple, germane tests like Quinn's. Remember Richard Feynman's little table-top test of the Space Shuttle's o-ring material after it exploded? Lotta whining (actually a HUGE amount of whining!) about his methodology too until it finally became clear to NASA and Thiokol that he was on the right track.

Spin it any way you like, offer FBI "suggestions", etc. but it was a great empirical test. Plenty more on the web to choose from too.

[Excelsior]

To be fair, once you get up to T or F sized shot ... probably pretty reliably effective at distances up to 5 yards.

I just don't see any sense in using them, when #4 Buck, #1 buck and 00 buck will do the job so much MORE reliably.

1.) Concerns about penetrating adjoining walls.

2.) The damage at 21' was devastating. No proof that 4/1/00 would be more reliable in that context.

3.) #8 would not be the choice at long distances outside of the home. Then again if they were long enough, 00 wouldn't be the round of choice either.

[Excelsior]

When was the last time a glob of "ballistic gel" fired on anyone?

[Packy14]

When was the last time a glob of "ballistic gel" fired on anyone?

still at it. you're great.

[mossy]

can everyone stop engaging the troll, it is a sad waste of time..................

[k1dude]

Arguing with Excelsior is an exercise in futility. If you said the sky is blue, he would claim you're wrong and the sky is actually azure. If you initially said the sky is azure, he would claim you were wrong and the sky is actually blue.

He does this in almost every thread he posts in. It's just not worth feeding the troll. He doesn't do it to add anything constructive to the thread. He does it simply to argue. I'm not sure why he hasn't been banned yet.

[elSquid]

1.) Concerns about penetrating adjoining walls.

So I assume that this requirement completely rules out handguns for home defense? If not, what loads are suitable for said use?

-- Michael

[Kestryll]

can everyone stop engaging the troll, it is a sad waste of time..................

Arguing with Excelsior is an exercise in futility.

He does this in almost every thread he posts in. It's just not worth feeding the troll. He doesn't do it to add anything constructive to the thread. He does it simply to argue.

Agreed.