Buckshot vs Birdshot for HD . . . Here we go again.

[Excelsior]

Great audio from Gresham on Youtube on this subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2USyKdisuT8

[m16]

I don't need to watch a "video" or listen to some guy with no defensive or combat shotgun experience.

The fact is, birdshot does not penetrate deep enough to hit the vitals.

It really is that simple.

Shoot to neutralize the threat.

Period.

I'm not even going to argue about this, because it's stupid.

You want to keep your shotgun filled with birdshot? Go right ahead.

I'll stick with what works.

Oh by the way, you keep referencing some guy who calls people "web weenies" and is making a video called "i saw it on the internet", and you're posting links to his videos.

On the internet.

Do you even realize how dumb that is?

[anti]

I don't need to watch a "video" or listen to some guy with no defensive or combat shotgun experience.

The fact is, birdshot does not penetrate deep enough to hit the vitals.

It really is that simple.

Shoot to neutralize the threat.

Period.

I'm not even going to argue about this, because it's stupid.

You want to keep your shotgun filled with birdshot? Go right ahead.

I'll stick with what works.

Oh by the way, you keep referencing some guy who calls people "web weenies" and is making a video called "i saw it on the internet", and you're posting links to his videos.

On the internet.

Do you even realize how dumb that is?

Exactly, Excelsior is a victim waiting to happen. And if something were to happen to him and the cops discover his shotgun was loaded with birdshot - well I'm sure they'd say something about that.

[anti]

And that was the stupidest radio show I've ever listened to. "We killed a grizzly with birdshot at close range! 30 or 40 feet!" Bull****. And even if you are stupid enough to go after bears with birdshot ... well you win the Darwin Award.

[anti]

And more importantly please think about what you are doing... you're advocating birdshot for home defense on a forum where many people can see what we're posting... what if someone were to take your advice to heart and it cost them their life?

I know it sounds melodramatic but crazier things have happened...

[Excelsior]

I don't need to watch a "video" or listen to some guy with no defensive or combat shotgun experience.

The fact is, birdshot does not penetrate deep enough to hit the vitals.

It really is that simple.

Shoot to neutralize the threat.

Period.

I'm not even going to argue about this, because it's stupid.

You want to keep your shotgun filled with birdshot? Go right ahead.

I'll stick with what works.

Oh by the way, you keep referencing some guy who calls people "web weenies" and is making a video called "i saw it on the internet", and you're posting links to his videos.

On the internet.

Do you even realize how dumb that is?

Naw.

If you don't think that blasting someone at 10' with 12 gauge #6 #7.5 won't "neutralize the threat" then simply put, that's on you. "Period."

[Excelsior]

Exactly, Excelsior is a victim waiting to happen. And if something were to happen to him and the cops discover his shotgun was loaded with birdshot - well I'm sure they'd say something about that.

Suuuuuure I am...

[John Joseph]

Buckshot. If I don't have buckshot then birdshot, but buck shot is preferred. Arguing about the size of the buckshot is just plain silly. Use what you got.

[2shotjoe]

Why not both? yay!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[ZombieTactics]

...If you don't think that blasting someone at 10' with 12 gauge #6 #7.5 won't "neutralize the threat" then simply put, that's on you. "Period."

Depends upon what you mean by "neutralize", and who "someone" is in some given case.

We can gain some comfort from knowing that a large percentage of the the criminal population will turn and run the second any hint of armed resistance becomes apparent. A blank would work fine in those cases ... and no fear of over penetration.

I don't think that's what most people are talking about though. A physical stop requires a round capable of penetrating deep enough to effect major arteries and internal organs. #7.5 birdshot isn't something you can trust to do that with a high degree of reliability ... even at only 10 feet.

[Excelsior]

For those that think that birdshot (in this case #8) won't "penetrate" deep enough to "neutralize" the threat, here's some interesting empirical testing by Jeff Quinn of gunblast.com:

http://youtu.be/gq3RVvL9ZjU

Shooting (and "penetrating") meat begins around 6:30 Maybe once watching this some will stop making such silly comments?

[Excelsior]

Depends upon what you mean by "neutralize", and who "someone" is in some given case.

We can gain some comfort from knowing that a large percentage of the the criminal population will turn and run the second any hint of armed resistance becomes apparent. A blank would work fine in those cases ... and no fear of over penetration.

I don't think that's what most people are talking about though. A physical stop requires a round capable of penetrating deep enough to effect major arteries and internal organs. #7.5 birdshot isn't something you can trust to do that with a high degree of reliability ... even at only 10 feet.

Absolute hogwash. You're passing on inaccurate information. Here's a video of a 12 gauge using #8 shot being fired into pork meat at 21'. Watch it beginning at 6:30 for about a minute and come back and tell me you stand with your above comment:

http://youtu.be/gq3RVvL9ZjU

[elSquid]

For those that think that birdshot (in this case #8) won't "penetrate" deep enough to "neutralize" the threat, here's some interesting empirical testing by Jeff Quinn of gunblast.com:

http://youtu.be/gq3RVvL9ZjU

Shooting (and "penetrating") meat begins around 6:30 Maybe once watching this some will stop making such silly comments?

Here's some more proof that birdshot works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lift4fX-8UI

also good against multiple attackers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AleCcEPqc1E

-- Michael

[ZombieTactics]

Absolute hogwash. You're passing on inaccurate information. Here's a video of a 12 gauge using #8 shot being fired into pork meat at 21'. Watch it beginning at 6:30 for about a minute and come back and tell me you stand with your above comment:

Shooting dead, bled and (probably) cured meant is not an accurate test of anything. It has almost none of the properties (density, viscosity, etc.) of living flesh. It's probably the worst test medium you can think of. (I can break this down at a chemical level if you like)

[m16]

This dude is a troll.

He gets his own threads locked, what does that tell you.

I still think it's hilarious that his buddy "Tom" gives everyone on the internet flack, yet this guy is posting all kinds of YouTube videos in this very thread, and doing the exact same thing that the radio talk show shotgun expert is crying about.